Why Does My Healing Matter?
Healing isn’t about “fixing” yourself or completing a checklist. It’s about stepping into the fullness of who you were created to be. It’s about reclaiming the parts of you that trauma, disappointment, or systems of injustice have tried to diminish.
As Dan puts it: “Healing can’t take over our lives in the sense that you do nothing but heal. But there is something about love—love of your own body and what it can bring others when you are healthier.”
Your healing matters because you matter—your story, your relationships, and the unique impact God has called you to make in the world.
The journey toward healing can feel messy, nonlinear, and even lonely at times—but it doesn’t have to be. Rachael and Dan remind us that healing isn’t something we’re meant to do alone. Healing happens in connection—with trusted friends, family, care providers, and a supportive community. It’s a process we walk through together—supported by community, grounded in love, and marked by hope.
We hope this week’s podcast episode offers wisdom and practical steps to help you reimagine your relationship with healing this year.
This episode contains some mild language; listener discretion is advised.
Related Podcast Episodes:
Listen to the “Things I Didn’t Expect When Healing From Trauma” series with Rachael Clinton Chen:
Check out “Healing to Lead,” a 2-part podcast series from the Allender Center:
Episode Transcript:
Rachael: Good people with good bodies. I am so glad to be here with my friend and colleague, Dan Allender. As we talk a bit more about something we talk about quite often, whether we do it explicitly or implicitly, and it’s something that I’ve committed to very intentionally this year in a new way, we’re going to talk more about healing. And even as I say that word, so much comes up, I think probably for all of us, this is a word that stirs a lot. It’s a buzzword right now. In some ways, it can even become like a mythological new dogmatic pursuit of perfection that’s not really healing. All of us are in need of healing. And when I say that I’m intentionally leaning into it this year, I’m just two and a half years postpartum. I’m in my early forties, which as a woman means entering all kinds of perimenopausal, possibly menopausal hormonal distress waters. And I am parenting a toddler and two teenagers, which is bringing up new, not unfamiliar, but maybe new intensity of certain triggers in my body and heart and mind. So I’ve just been aware coming into this new year that I need to actually be more intentional about pursuing healing. And that’s a little bit what we’re going to talk about today, that we face many obstacles when we intention ourselves toward healing, and that doesn’t need to lead to despair. So Dan, what comes up for you?
Dan: It’s the word, dammit. There’s no other swear words actually that come to mind, but it’s like healing. Dammit. I know how important it’s, I’m a participant in other people’s healing, and I have the privilege of having,
Rachael: We’re in healing work.
Dan: It’s our business. But there’s so much disappointment. Oh my gosh. I think the notion of healing over the holiday period, two of my dearest friends in our church, one went into the hospital with a very severe fever and it was regulated. Then it came back all sorts of tests, no conclusion, he’s better, but it’s almost like what? What happened? And then another dear friend who had been in a motorcycle accident, but in the process they discovered portions of his intestines were either damaged from the fall or the fall itself, gave access to being able to see that there are intestinal issues. And he just went into the hospital. Again, this is like the third or fourth trip. And I mean, all I can say is as and if you’re in your early forties, I’m in my early seventies, it feels like a lot of what Becky and I end up praying about is healing on behalf of others and our own. But the reality of, damnit, I don’t know where there has been more of a sense of, again, the goodness of God in seeing healing and more of the question is got good in the struggles with regard to healing doesn’t seem to be this single dose that somehow when it comes, it resolves and things are better. So all I can say is when we talk about healing, we’re really talking about the struggle with hope.
Rachael: Yeah. Well, and when we’re talking about the struggle with hope, we’re talking about this larger story that we find ourselves in. You and I were talking beforehand that in many ways, so much of the disease, the disease, the fragmentation, the heartache, the brokenness, the anxiety, the depression that we deal with, the impact of trauma is coming from the reality of living in a world that is very broken, very fragmented, and has really oppressive systems that weigh down.
Dan: Perpetuate.
Rachael: Yeah. And there’s kind of this sense of if you just have the right resources or know the right people or have enough wealth, then you can, I often say healing the work of work healing work feels almost like a job at times, like a part-time job where you need that kind of time, money, resource and access. And there’s, I think just to own there is a truth to that injustice in our world. So we know when we’re approaching this topic and in many ways, inviting people to lean into hope and therefore to lean into action that we’re asking you to do that when we ourselves face many of the obstacles we’re talking about. And also bear privilege to be able to overcome some of these obstacles that many people are not able to. So this does feel like when you say, yeah, we’re talking about hope, it feels so deeply connected to the human struggle. And why I think I want to just say from the onset why we need each other and why we need, especially in this season of our United States world, why we need imagination for community care like resource sharing. Because I do think this kind of sense of you pursue healing just very individually and power through, it’s not really feasible or sustainable, and I don’t think it’s what we’re meant for.
Dan: Well, and again, I couldn’t agree more, and yet we have a dear friend and colleague who due to issues with regard to her teeth, ended up having to have major surgery, but there were only two people in the United States of America who could do this kind of work. And you go, what, two people, one person in South Carolina, the other person in Seattle, two people. And so the dilemma is the healing sometimes requires specialists access to specialists. When there are so few who seem to be able to do certain kinds of particular work, there’s a generic healing, then there’s often very, very specific work that needs to be done. And I think of that in the broad range of both physical, spiritual, psychological, relational, and the idea that we live without access. It’s so much an interplay of every question we have about the ultimate goodness of God. You mean there are only two people who can do this kind of surgery? How come there aren’t hundreds of people? And part of the reason is very specific unique illnesses don’t have the same monetary effect. We know with regard to certain illnesses that very few suffer that companies, drug companies, are not going to do the investment because it doesn’t have the prospect. So where capitalism regard for the structure of one’s own career, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So there’s just so much that royals within me when we begin to talk about this. So hopefully we can say because we believe it, we really do believe it, healing is possible, but it is not very seldom immediate, quick and resolved in a way in which it doesn’t have, in some ways the old phrase that sometimes the cure is worse or it’s so it feels worse than the disease itself. So where does all that take you as we launch into this?
Rachael: Oh, well, I think back to, I don’t tend to do, because my birthday’s in December, I usually set my intention for, I set an intention. I just have to be that specific. And it’s more a way of saying, okay, what is something I actually need to put energy resource, time, effort, attention to? And I did came back to, okay, I really need to be intentional about pursuing more particular healing in this season ahead. So I mean, I’m talking very basic things like getting a colonoscopy.
Dan: Hey, the drugs are great by the way, just so you know.
Rachael: Going to get an ultrasound on my hand to figure out this ganglion cyst I have on my finger. I mean, it’s like things that are that particular. But also I got blood work done recently, and I’m pre-diabetic. I know a huge part of that is postpartum life. I was breastfeeding for two years. It’s like you’re just hungry all the time. We have teenagers, we’re on the go. Again. I actually have a lot of compassion for why I’ve been eating a lot of sugar, but I also know my body doesn’t break down sugar very well. And so there’s just a lot of little red flags coming. Like I mentioned, more triggers that feels connected to my story, feel connected to my nervous system, feel connected to their ways. In some ways it’s like that check engine light comes on, again, I’ve talked about this enough on this podcast. So many of the healing processes I’m in will not reach a conclusion or perfection on this side of eternity. And it can be so frustrating when it’s like, how am I back here again? And I think what I find hope in is I’m back here again with different resources, with more healing and integration, more capacity, more of a reminder of like, okay, you actually do have some practices and skills and you have enough vulnerability to scream “help me!” Which is really what I feel like the intention for me was, is it really was kind of a way of saying, I need help in a new way and it’s going to take some intentionality and also it’s going to take some supernatural spiritual provision and it’s going to take some humility and it’s going to take some courage and it’s certainly going to take some leaning in to hope. Because I’m tired and I’m already overworked and I’m taking care of a toddler, and I have enough obstacles financially, physically, emotionally, spiritually, to kind of be like, eh, I’ll just kind of keep going until it gets really bad.
Dan: Yeah. Well, I always come back to this phrase, probably to me, one of the most disturbing sentences Jesus spoke to the men at Bethesda, at the pool of Shalom and where he says, do you want to be healed? And that infuriates me because there are so much suffering to be at that pool every single day looking to get into the water. When it’s stirred to be the one who in one sense receives the benefit of what seems to imply a kind of singularity of healing, you better be first because whatever healing is going to come is going to come to the first person into the water. And because of his disability, he could not make it in. So to ask that question to a man who for decades, apparently three decades has been waiting to be healed, feels like one of the most, shall we say, insensitive questions. And indeed, that question seems to be one that I resist because as we have this conversation about healing, my daughter, Annie, at one point over the holidays just said, as your aging, I have seen you grow in your ability to engage what I know was lots of fear, but I also know there’s just lots of fear within you that makes my heart grieve. And I’m like, when your child who’s now an adult and a healer begins to name the arena, at least one, that needs the work of healing, I felt defensive certainly at first, but her kindness and her invitation. So that became toward the end of the year or the beginning of this new year, something that has required a kind of, as you put it, intentionality. And I think let’s underscore that when you know there is something not well within you, it is easier to live with it than to open the door to hope and then operate with intentionality, which then requires more consciousness, more choice in your case, doctor’s visits, appointments, et cetera. And in that process, it’s back to most of us have learned to adapt to the illnesses because whatever initial entry into healing may not have brought about the things that we most desire. When we look at what people do with regard to our narrative focus trauma care program, I so often find people at the very beginning of their work, reluctant, open, ambivalent, is this going to be of any help damnit? And again, I’m not going to say that every person finds equal amount of help, but the healing process, whether it be a story workshop, whether it be narrative focused trauma care, whether it be therapy, whether reading a book, going to an acupuncturist, get a colonoscopy, it’s all effort that feels to some degree, initially futile, that opens up more hope, but oftentimes doesn’t bring what we desire and to remain in a process with the intentionality that this healing is iterative, usually, not singular and one dose. And in that it’s a constant, in one sense, battle war with will I keep hoping, will I keep acting in directions that actually are toward healing?
Rachael: Yeah, I mean, it makes me think about, I think so much of the work of narrative focused trauma care is actually finding a language of your body and your emotions and paying attention in a new way and understanding the patterns of how you relate, but also the systems you’re a part of and how they relate in some ways. I remember in my early work and kind of understanding my story and listening to my body, the awareness felt really beautiful and relieving like, oh, that makes sense. Yeah, I’m not just anxious. There’s other things that work, right? And yet that awareness doesn’t immediately lead to the kind of transformation. And in fact, I think in some ways I thought, oh, if I just work hard enough, if I just do enough healing work, there’s a fundamentalism here at dogmatism, if I just do enough healing work, then I can break all the generational curses that I carry in my body and in my personhood, and I won’t pass them onto my daughter. And here I am with awareness of some of the ways my behavior might impact her, and I’m still not able to fully be a perfectly healed, perfectly loving, perfectly stable and calm and just always getting it right kind of mom. And so there is an aspect of the more we understand our brokenness and our beauty, in some ways it intensifies the ache. And kind of where I was going when you were talking is over the new year, several weeks ago or a few weeks ago, I was at a conference with my husband. He’s in campus ministry, it’s Impact National Conference. Impact Movement is an incredible organization. They work primarily with Black college students, so you should check them out. But one of the speakers was just going on some ways, what are we being invited to stay in this work of the kingdom? And she said, I was feeling real convicted things like sometimes God might pull you out of certain contexts, family systems, organizations or whatever, and bring you a kind of healing to send you back to those contexts. She was talking about Moses, right? So send you back to those contexts to bring liberation with the spirit. So I was feeling convictions there, but then she said this phrase, some of you all need to forgive, not for the sake of the person who harmed you, but for your own sake. And it was like the Holy Spirit. It was like if there was a big spotlight, UFO beam beaming down on you and you just feel it. And I’ve been in those moments before. I’ve been a Christian for a long time, this language is not unfamiliar to me. And these moments where the spirit is bringing conviction, but usually it’s like maybe my unforgiveness or the kind of bitterness I’m holding onto is one or two people, but for me it’s 30 people. It was literally like Spirit was like, and you need to do some work here and you need to do some work here. And again, I’m like, I know I’m going off on a rabbit trail, but it’s back to healing, I think is so multilayered and it covers such depths we can’t even see. And I did feel like it was one of those moments where Jesus was saying to me, do you want to be healed? And a part of me was like, no, not really. No, I’m good. Because ultimately I’m am such a lover that one of the ways I know I try to keep myself safe is if I can just be so angry at people, then they can never get close to me and hurt me again. But that’s carrying around a lot of weight and probably intensifying some of my defense mechanisms that are also getting triggered by a tiny human who’s constantly telling me what to do and not listening to me. If you have parenting advice that is gentle parenting for strong-willed children. You could send me a personal message, but yeah, there was something really powerful for me about that invitation. Again, I’ve said yes to healing in a very intentional way. Jesus knows that. I’m like, yeah, I’m in. I’m all in. That was not a layer I was actually thinking about when I was thinking about like, okay, I need to do some more story work. I need to do more repenting work around my privilege and how I’m connected in the world. In the larger story, the sense of you need to actually work on some forgiveness and letting go and making amends was not on my bingo card for healing.
Dan: No. Again, what I can say at my vaunted age is that if healing becomes your primary goal, you have nothing else to do in life, but to heal, and it can’t happen that way. And so yeah, too, I was diagnosed with prediabetes, and there’s been some small movement mostly through the use of a lovely drug called metformin. But on the other hand, it has required choice with regard to what I eat and what I don’t. But I was more taken by how healing, well, we all know certain realms, be it personal, be it relational, be it psychological, be it familial, physical, blah, blah, but it’s more when the door gets knocked on that we weren’t actually thinking about. So you’re sitting and
Rachael: Which is actually I think really connected to a lot of the health issues like the physical health issues and the emotional health issues. Of course, it’s connected. Yeah, yeah.
Dan: Well, you’re sitting at an Impact Conference. I’m having a lovely holiday time, and my daughter knocks on the door. So you begin to realize, wait a minute, that the Spirit knows the work that needs to be done. And the Spirit is so gracious in offering us those moments of really revelation of something’s being named, and I’m now being invited in. But let’s talk a little bit about the process for you. Again, not just going to a physician, beginning to pray more, think more, write more. There are lots of things that we can articulate, but to you, what’s the core required for the movement of healing?
Rachael: Well, I think we kind of put words to it when I said I cry for help in some ways. For me, it usually starts with at least acknowledging I’m not well, I’m not well, and I mean, I want to pause. I want to go back to something you said just to make it more clear and then we can come back to this. Yeah, there’s all these new age healing, focus on healing, all the different ways you can heal. I mean, in some ways, healing in many ways, it’s a part of mercy. It’s also a part of justice. But part of what compels me is to be more available for love, to be more open to human connection, to grow my hope, to stay in the fight towards justice and mercy and the kingdom of God coming to earth as it’s in heaven. That is what ultimately compels me. So even, yes, for myself, I’m not well, but starting to see the ways in which my not being well is impacting the people I love and the people I’m called to serve.
Dan: Yes.
Rachael: Even if that call to service is changing constantly,
Dan: Well, it’s in James four where we are to call the elders. We’re to call mature people, we’re to call people to come and pray for us and to lay hands on us and to anoint us with oil. There are, if that can be broadly spoken, there are rituals involved in healing. There’s rituals involved in beginning a medical process. I have been a proponent and utilized the grace and services of acupuncture over the last 30 some years. And in that process, iterativem, month by month, year by year, there are benefits that accrue, but sometimes there’s so apparently negligible that you don’t see the larger benefit. I need a community that comes alongside in one sense, exposes and fights, but also affirms and stands with in that process. So again, to say healing can’t take our lives in the sense that you do nothing but heal. But there is something about love. Love of your own body, love of your body and what it can bring others when you are healthier. But is that prompting to be able to say, well, I had not planned on fear being a fundamental focus for the year 2025, but some journaling, some writing, some conversations. It’s just been clearer that, oh, Annie has targeted a really important thing in our hearts. But I want to again come back to that. It’s by the willingness to ask. But asking always requires the ability to name that we are at some level desperate something is not well, and we’ve not learned to adapt to it, so that it actually just becomes another fragment of how we’re living is where something gets acknowledged. I’m not well, and I don’t want to remain unwell. Whether that is in your marriage, whether that’s in your relationship with your children, there’s something that begins with desperation, and that is a process of asking. Does that make sense?
Rachael: Yeah, it makes a lot of sense.
Dan: Well, if people know, I’m actually reflecting on Matthew 7:7-12, and I think this is a crucial category for maturing, but we are to ask, but we’re also to seek. So when you think about seeking, where does your mind and heart go?
Rachael: It goes to a lot of different places because I think one of the things I’m learning to seek in this particular season is community and resource sharing and a deeper imagination. I’ll always be seeking medical care, even though I am at odds with our medical systems, I think they’re wildly unjust and lack access. It feels like a fight just to get access to a decent care provider and to have the financial resources. But I think seeking lots of different opportunities for healing, like I said, spiritual opportunities and prayer and care from spiritual community and those who care about nourishing the soul and soul care. Even I have a lot of lament that I don’t have as much connection to some of the medicinal healing wisdom of my ancestors because I think so much of that got cut off in their own movement and migration and trauma because I think a lot of cultures do have some of that healing wisdom intact. And that’s why it’s the role of community and ways that healing medicines that are indigenous to different people and communities that are really powerful and aren’t something you’re going to find going to a medical care provider. It doesn’t mean you don’t need medical care. It’s just this sense that I actually believe deeply that God wired us, our bodies long for healing. I mean, it takes me back to Romans eight. Our bodies long for healing. The earth longs for healing. So even seeing how I’m, so, my healing is so deeply connected with the healing of the whole earth. Our earth longs for healing, our relationships, our communities. There is a cry for being made whole, for being made new, and sometimes even the tiniest step is really like a mustard seed that goes a really long way. So I’ve shared in a whole podcast series like things I didn’t expect when healing from trauma. I’ve radically accepted that I will have many seasons of an iteration, like a cyclical iteration where I’m not back at the beginning, but I’m back to a familiar place. I have autoimmune stuff that I will need to tend to for the long haul. It’s not all the time, it’s not constant, but when it flares up, that is a sign for me that things are not, well, again, friendships and yeah, just nourishment in general. So for example, part of my intention for this year, again, get some healing for my gut, but also have more community. Part of that is tending to the unforgiveness because I kind of kept myself cut off from a lot of community as a way to not be hurt or disappointed or abandoned or all the things that are just actually a part of being human and a part of being in community. Yeah, again, it’s a holistic front for me, but it also feels like I don’t have to, sometimes there are seasons of healing if we’re dealing with serious issues that require more acute care. And I would say I’m not as much in an acute care season as I am… I have an opportunity to move intentionally, but slowly so that things can go deep, more deep, can be more sustainable. And so again, for me, this is more of a season of baby steps to four o’clock. If you…what’s that movie? Therapists hate it. What
Dan: What about Bob? Oh good God.
Rachael: Baby steps to four o’clock.
Dan: Thank you for bringing heartache and terror. Literally the first time I was forced to watch it, two of my dearest friends, Dave and Tremper literally sat on me physically, literally held me down to keep me watching this horror film. Absolutely. Anyone who thinks it’s a comedy is not a therapist. Anyway, back to the point though, that the reiterative process, I think that’s where I get frustrated because I know there are hundreds, literally hundreds of ways for healing to happen, and they’re overlapping. No one’s created a kind of synthesis of the physical, the psychological, the spiritual. So the reality of there are times where I know that I’m in the kind of spiritual warfare where a good therapist is not going to help. I need somebody who really knows how to engage the issues of prayer, deliverance, freedom from spiritual warfare. There are other times, obviously where there are things that are highly connected to my own past that again, I’ve done work and I know there’s always more work to be done. And when those realities come to the surface, it would be glorious if there was an apex, a person or process or group that held all healing in one hand, which is again, the impulse of I want control. And the idea of seeking leaves me at a point where I’m going to have to go to multiple different worlds and try again and see what happens, and then seek against someone else. So the interplay of ask desperation, seek, be willing to risk, and then knock again, that notion of we’ve got to land on at least a door and stand at that door and knock until the door is opened, meaning I can’t be involved in all forms of healing. I’m going to have to make some choices, which means we know the word decision has that notion of death in it. The homicide decide has that notion of cutting off you, cutting off other options. When you choose this option, you can’t do it all, and that may not be the right choice, but you’ve got to make a choice and now walk in it for a season to see what it brings and how in one sense, the connective links to others people, but also other processes, open the door for even more change. So the idea of you have made some very significant choices this year, what door are you knocking on?
Rachael: Well, I am knocking very specifically on the door of gut health because for me, that has been pretty central to a lot of my autoimmune stuff. And so that’s going to be something. And for me, what that will look like is nourishing. It’s not deprivation in some ways. I’m actually, I’m participating in deprivation by eating a lot of fast food and high sugar things and not actually giving my body some of the nourishment that it’s really asking for. I guess I got to be knocking on the door of some emotional health in a more intentional way. I am going to be pursuing some EMDR and acupuncture around some of the ways I’m getting triggered with regard to my toddler, not just for her sake, but for my sake and for both of our sakes. And yeah, I need a deeper spiritual healing. So as much as I’m scared of that, I’m humble enough, and I’ve been around the block enough to know if you say yes to Jesus, some things might happen that bring change or invite you to change or transformation. And I’m stubborn. I’ve always been stubborn and God has made it very clear. God loves that about me. My stubbornness, my strong will. It’s part of how God made me. And so there’s a lot of graciousness there, but is I feel an invitation of your bitterness is not actually is keeping you safe and it’s not making you well. And it’s actually physically, emotionally, spiritually blocking me from comfort, from grief that will probably bring some comfort and from connection that I’m met for and is actually probably available to me. And that’s, again, I don’t feel condemnation there. That’s come very gently in a way that I actually feel desire to move toward that. So those are some ways in the midst of that, a huge kind of intention for our family in this season is deeper community connection here in our local neighborhood with our neighbors, with faith community, with friends, to actually prepare for whatever is going to come with some of the shifts in our nation and the ways that it might impact more vulnerable communities. So that actually feels deeply connected to the trust of healing and gut and all the things we’re talking about.
Dan: Well, in so many ways, at least I would underscore your healing is oriented towards your splagna, the Greek word for guts stomach, essentially, that you are being called, to put it not a trivial way, but an incidental way, a change of diet, a change of not merely food, but how you feed and nourish your heart. And it’s interesting that you are focused on a part of your body, which obviously affects the entirety of your body, but it’s really actually helpful to have that frame of, well, you’re not working on your shoulder, you’re working on your guts, your splagna. And if I were to focus on that for what Annie provoked is, I’m working on my dorsal lateral prefrontal cortex, which is what holds significant amounts of memory and emotion and choice. So even being able to have language like Becky and I were walking and she was like, what do I need to be praying for you? And it was like my DLPFC, my dorsal lateral prefrontal cortex needs care. And just even, it was ridiculous but wonderful to name, this is the part of the body that I’m asking Jesus, I’m asking good care from friends to connect, to pray, to be part of healing. And in that, yes, we’re knocking on the door and who knows where all this will go, but we know at least three core things, we can’t do this without our story. We can’t engage any of this healing process without knowing more of how our story past has played and continues to play in the present. We can’t know our story without relationships, which ultimately means community. So we can’t change, can’t see healing without an engagement. Not just in a process like going to a physician, but actually seeing the healing process as a larger community relational realm, both in terms of the heartbreak and at times illness of deprivation of systems and finances for people to see healing, but also to be able to enter into what we can do irrespective of access that we have. That’s right. I think the third is obvious, and that is all healing is centered on the person of Jesus and in the Spirit’s work of drawing out the ache, but also providing something of the taste of hope to continue in this process. So I will, this podcast will not be, shall we say, finished until we see the end of the year where I can perhaps at the close to the end of the year be able to say, so how are your guts? And you can say, well, how’s your prefrontal cortex?
Rachael: Yes, indeed.