Narrative Focused Trauma Care® with Becky Allender

by on March 13, 2026

Have you been living within a role for years—only to wonder if there is more of you still waiting to be known?

For decades, Becky Allender stood faithfully behind the scenes, supporting Dan’s work, praying as an intercessor, helping build what would become the Allender Center. Yet she also carried the ache of being “in the room” without fully feeling she had a seat at the table. In today’s conversation, she names the cost of that tension, and the courage it took to step forward.

When Becky chose to participate in Narrative Focused Trauma Care®—the very framework her husband helped create—something began to shift. Through the steady presence of skilled facilitators and courageous companions, she encountered grief she hadn’t fully named and discovered a growing kindness toward parts of herself long defended or hidden.

What followed was not only personal healing, but relational transformation. Through the language she gained and interactions she experienced, her relationship with Dan deepened. Repair with her daughters became possible. Her love for her parents softened and expanded. And from that engagement with her story emerged a clearer sense of calling—expressed in her teaching, leadership, and her memoir, Hidden in Plain Sight.

Perhaps most compelling is this: Becky began this work after decades of marriage, motherhood, and ministry. It was not too late. And it is not too late for you.

What might you be missing by staying in the role you’ve always carried? And what new life could unfold if you trusted that your story is still being written?

*This episode mentions an incident of rape; listener discretion is advised.

 

About the Allender Center Podcast:

For over a decade, the Allender Center Podcast has offered honest, thoughtful conversations about the deep work of healing and transformation. Hosted by Dr. Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen, MDiv, this weekly podcast explores the complexities of trauma, abuse recovery, story, relationships, and spiritual formation. Through questions submitted by listeners, stories, interviews, and conversations, we engage the deep places of heartache and hope that are rarely addressed so candidly in our culture today. Join the Allender Center Podcast to uncover meaningful perspectives and support for your path to healing and growth.

At the Allender Center, we value thoughtful dialogue across a wide range of voices, stories, and lived experiences. In that spirit, our podcast features guests and hosts who may hold differing perspectives. The perspectives shared on this podcast by guests and hosts reflect their own experiences and viewpoints and do not necessarily represent the views, positions, or endorsements of the Allender Center and/or The Seattle School of Theology & Psychology.

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Episode Transcript:

Rachael: Well, good people with good bodies. I am delighted today to be joined by Dan Allender, who will be taking more of a backseat in this conversation as we make space for a very beloved ⁓ and delightful guest, Becky Allender. So welcome, Becky.

Dan: It’s great to be here. Thank you, Rachael. And let me just be clear. I am in the back seat and I am so intrigued to hear the conversation.

Rachael: Yeah, we are. ⁓ We are delighted to start having more of an intentional series, maybe like monthly where we are talking to alumni from our narrative focused trauma care training. And Becky Allender to me is definitely a VIP alumni of Narrative Focused Trauma Care, all levels of training, but also a founder of this work. And so you hold such a, you know, your unique

her view in being one that has seen the development of, you know, what we would talk about at the Allender Center as not only trainings that we offer, but actually like core to our healing methodology. So we can talk more about that as things unfold, but you know, you obviously you and Dan have been married for many years now and you’ve kind of witnessed his vocational formation. But you’ve also been a participant in that in many iterations. And certainly you were at the table and had a, you know, were very pivotal in the formation of the Allender Center, which now it was, oh my gosh, 16 years ago that we started talking about this center as like a real entity. So maybe we can start there and you could share a little bit about just what it’s been like to see Dan’s work, your work together, kind of come into something called Narrative Focused Trauma Care. And yeah, we can.

Becky: That sounds great. I would love to. I sat down to gather my thoughts this morning and I had Dan help me. I’ve been listening to him for 40 years. Is that correct? Is that where we landed? Four decades, but it’s usually always been students, you know, and I take turns going, you know, hearing his teaching over the many years. I never signed up for that, obviously. There were reasons why, but the Narrative Focused Trauma Care is a whole new animal that it just felt like this is not only my jam, but it’s been my healing. It’s been my coming out. It’s been my awareness of greater love for all of life. So I wouldn’t have traded this for anything. And so to go to the beginning, I think you asked like, a lot of the time with Dan, at times I feel like outside of the circle because I haven’t been a student. So when you were starting, when we were starting the center, it started with the founders and their stories. And yes, I was hosting you. I was, you know, we are getting to know one another. And then once it began in St. Louis, I was the sole intercessor. And so hearing Dan teach, and then everyone started to hop in, the founders of teaching. A lot was happening in my heart. In that first year, I felt like I couldn’t do this. I couldn’t be a part of it. It hadn’t worked. And there was an incident that my language is: I felt outside of the circle. And a lot of times for me to feel what I’m really feeling, I have to explode and get really… Angry, very angry. 

Dan: I’ll confirm that. 

Becky: It’s the only way I seem to make movement, unfortunately, but it does, know, lights went off, fireworks. And the man who had given us the seed money to fly everyone to St. Louis for the four long weekends was the driver to the airport. I was in the back seat, Dan was in the front. I’d just exploded with the team, got in the car. Just hot mad and tears, tears, like, well, whatever. And he’s like, Becky, you know, this will never work without you. Becky, this will never work. You have got to be a part of this. He had no idea that I had just slammed the door on the whole thing. And then that would have hurt me so much to have yet been in another arena of Dan’s work and not been a part of it. So I cried quietly in the backseat the whole way. He never really knew, but that was the beginning where I realized I needed more intercessors, just not me. But again, each year, each lecture, things are happening in my heart, and then they’re happening with the intercessors’ heart. So there was conversation, and Dan and I were children of, our parents were in the Great Depression. So we have an idea what a dollar bill is all about. And I knew for me to ask, may I go through the training? Like that was another plane ticket for another intercessor. That was food. That was, that was asking a lot, but he did say yes. And oh my goodness, that first weekend, you know, you’re scary. You write, you write a story week one, maybe about 800 words and it’s you know, it’s like a middle of a childhood story, but I couldn’t believe the expertise of a facilitator that could use my own words to tell the truth that even I hadn’t understood. And, and then for me to hear other people’s stories and to think in my head like, oh it’s not just me. Oh, you too. Or, you know, like we weren’t saying that to one another, but my heart felt more and more settled. Like this must be the human experience where before I felt like an oddball of sort or, you know, a loser of some way, but also in the journey of the care, the facilitator is over the course of four long weekends, you write four stories. But I have my own issues with my own husband. 

Dan: Let me confirm that.

Rachael: We’ll get there. We’re going to get there, right? Because I just want to say like one as being someone at the table when your heartache, it wasn’t just blowing up. There was genuine heartache of naming. You got, once again, I’m in a reenactment where something is being created that my presence is needed at and demanded at, but I’m an outsider. I’m not a part of the core work that’s happening. And yet like so pivotal, like when I think to that first year, I can’t imagine doing it without you. But to have to see what that costs you and what the feeling was of being in the room. And you’re not the only person. You’re the first, but you’re not the only who’s put words to that in those formative years. But to be kind of demanded to be in the room, but not actually feel like you have a seat at the table. That was a really heart-breaking and also transformative moment for me to witness to be reminded that like this is work that’s meant to be transformative for everyone and I thought it was really powerful in many ways that you said you will see me. Like, you will engage me you will hear me like you will actually have to acknowledge me and I do want to talk more about like how that came out even in a book you wrote and telling your story. But it’s heartbreaking to be a part of a reenactment of someone’s harm, to know that in many ways, because you’ve missed seeing them well, or you accepted that the role they’ve played is the only role they get to play, or not seeing that they might have desire for something different, that you are kind of participating in a way of joining in a familiar type of harm. We can talk more about how like that’s happening to us. And sometimes we’re also like participants in that because that’s what we’ve known. But I just want to say from someone at the table, it was a very painful moment to see your pain and to have been a part of missing you in a really, yeah, like painful way. And to get to watch your transformation of finding your voice more clearly, of letting your desire, you know, to like, this work is meaningful to me. And also like claiming in some ways, I haven’t just been a bystander. Like you were a part of the very first Recovery Weeks. Like you have been a co-laborer of this work, even if you weren’t like a Seattle School graduate student. And so, yeah, just so mindful of like there was so much goodness in that beginning and there was a lot of pain. And getting to witness you in your various roles and how proud I was of you when you were like, I’m gonna do this training. And so, yeah, I would love to hear, cause I wanna hear like, yeah, what was the transformation like? What change did it bring? First, I wanna just for our listeners say, I mentioned Narrative Focused Trauma Care is really our healing model, right? Like it’s a methodology that’s integrating psychology and theology to more holistically engage like the heartbreaking impact of trauma and abuse through engagement with story and not just in isolation, but as you mentioned in a group. And so when I think about like what you were stepping into with Narrative Focused Trauma Care Level I, it is a four weekend intensive model and each weekend kind of grows on the next and all of our trainings and kind of healing offerings involve, you know, this kind of psycho education, theological education, large group kind of engagement, but then you’re in a, you are in a small group that you stay with all four weekends and you do have a trained facilitator and you’re bringing stories. So like you said, you’re bringing your own story. The facilitator is bringing their story to kind of lead the way, and you’re engaging the story of your fellow group members. And so it’s very dynamic. And I love what you said, like to have someone listen to your words to help you see a deeper truth about your story. And I think in many ways to through an embodied engagement with story, be able to even have a kind of,

I don’t want to say corrective, but like a transformative engagement with how we’ve made meaning of our stories. And so I think that your experience with Narrative Focused Trauma Care is so powerful because you have such an intense dynamic engagement with the methodology throughout so many seasons of your life. And yeah, I just will never forget when you told me I’m going to do the training. And I remember thinking, I hope Dan’s ready for this because…

Becky: I think he was worried about that too, you know, changes everything.

Dan: I think my role here is just to go, let me confirm that. 

Rachael: And so I would love to hear because, know, in some ways, Dan and I, I remember having a conversation with you, Dan, where it was like, how, how wild is Jesus? That’s something you were a part of, creating really became a structure for Becky to, like, lean in for you to lean into, like, a deeper healing that then was very disruptive to your marriage and to the system of your marriage that you guys had created that worked for long seasons, but at great cost. And then kind of, you know, as you were undergoing more clarity of your own story, as we know, we talk about like it changes us and therefore it changes and can disrupt the systems we’re a part of, but hopefully unto a deeper kind of healing. yes, I would love to hear more around what that looks like.

Becky: Well, how would I phrase that? I think Dan is a really good listener and very undefensive in a way that I’m much more defensive. So I had my group, my group, I would be angry and say things in group, not necessarily against Dan, but just like, yeah, you know, he says, he doesn’t say my name very often. He says my wife, have just little things like that. And they’re like, yeah, I heard that. He’s not saying the name Becky, you know? So I had my own little cheering squad that I don’t know. It probably no one else needed that, you know, because, because I’m the only wife around, I guess, there to Dan. So it was so, and I think that’s how I’ve always lived life. I want a friend. I’m not one of those that wants to like backpack alone. No, thank you. I’ve always had a friend and that goes to my story, of course, right? Not feeling always safe or accepted or loved or happy with my own family, but I could always find a friend. And so this was the way for my heart to have friends with me. And I got to be a friend to them too and see things. And you realize there’s just a lot of universal healings that happen being a human being with care. It’s not that difficult. It’s not that… It’s not that secretive. It’s a commonality a common experience of growing on this planet Earth I just I and I and didn’t even I didn’t even tell Dan when I was asked to Be in the externship because I think we went over to the school at different times. Yeah, you had had a motorcycle accident. So I went ahead and I knew that he would honor that. That was fine. But even that was more healing. It was a higher level. 

Dan: Well, and what she went through all the weeks of NFTC I and got invited into the internship to run a group, I was told an hour before the beginning of that particular time. By the way, we had someone step out. We asked Becky to run the group. 

Becky: Well, we were in Ohio and I think Rachel, you called me and you said we’ve had someone that can’t be a part. Can you do it? Which was perfect for me because you know what? I don’t ask for things. So because I would have never like I would have never asked for that. That would have been too scary. But to step in and help out, I’m all about that. So it was life-changing.

Rachael: Well, and tell me a little bit because obviously you had been talking about abuse and trauma for decades, right? And I would imagine you guys just naturally in your marriage and even getting to learn and hear from you as you’ve leaned more into marriage work, were letting stories come into the atmosphere. But I would be curious what happened for you stepping into the training. How did you, did you feel like you were invited to take your story more seriously? You know, how did an engagement with trauma and story shape your understanding of your story?

Becky: Right, well, that one, the trauma, it kind of takes me to the third, yeah, maybe, because I did have a situation in college with a college professor who was my advisor and we were on an archeological dig. That did end up in rape. And then in the morning, we all got in Jeeps and we all flew home. There were 20 of us from all corners of the country. And, you know, I really… I I had some care around it. Absolutely. God has brought Pamela Reeve, other people, Dan, you know, but I think it was in the externship where the facilitator asked after I read this story that I brought the group, what did you see? You know, what was the most revelatory part of this? And no one went to what the facilitator saw and that was, did you notice how her voice changed? Did you notice how she took a deep breath? And that was about, I was a girl from Ohio that was in Colorado and wild horses would gallop by us and the eagles would fly. And I was coming alive in the mountains. And I hadn’t really even grieved that. That was along with the abuse, which took a lot of things, I just hide, know, I just bury. I’m sure I’m not the only one that does that. But to me, to hear the facilitator highlight. Yes, there was so much more that I lost at that time was a balm that I’ve of my soul that I’ve never forgotten. That was and that’s how we all have right to have that pointed out for a group that might not notice all that was lost. It was so kind, know, nothing like, why didn’t you notice that? Nothing like that. But it’s, have layers of healing and at different times we heal from different parts that have come from a story.

Rachael: Yeah, well, and I’m just, that’s not a story of yours that I’ve been privy to, or I’ve had the honor of knowing and just feeling like a deep, deep ache on your behalf to know that that’s part of what you’ve suffered in this world. And I do think that sense of like, there’s always more debris in a story, right? Than like even the core wound. so, or maybe what we think is the core wound actually has like, a deeper wound and that’s part of what I hear you putting words to that, that the way in which your soul was coming alive got taken from you as well in this moment or got tarnished in a way. So yeah, I think that’s just such a powerful kind of telling of what happens when we enter story work is that we get tended to places of us that have needed deep tending that maybe we didn’t even know, you know, and…

Becky: Exactly. Yes.

Rachael: And that what happens when someone is attuned in a way to all the dynamic aspects of the story, how our body language, how our, you know, when we talk about like parts, how our neural pathways are revealing a deeper truth in how we bring the story into the space and how we embody the story.

Becky: Well, that’s just it because you’re then seeing the other faces that the facilitator has highlighted the bigger picture. Well, then it’s time to grieve for yourself. And I think that’s, that’s the invitation and that’s the excitement, so to say, because if you, if you go along with the progression and the movements of these weekends, there’s just more and more and more. And it’s like, it’s so life changing. So life changing.

Rachael: Yeah, because part of how we’ve structured things is the first weekend of level one. And I think that all of the first two levels of training kind of follow a similar path. But the first weekend is a deeper engagement with like, what are we talking about when we’re talking about trauma? What is kind of in many ways, what are we talking when we talk about story and what are we meant for? We talk through, you know, really our theological frame of Shalom, like the story, the biblical story of Shalom and Shalom shattered and Shalom sought and Shalom restored, which we could talk more about another time, but just that sense that we live in a larger story and we taste those experiences of death and resurrection in our own stories. But the second weekend moves deeper into a lot of identity development and formation of who we are in our families of origin, in our cultural context. And what are some of those formative stories that have shaped who we are and how we connect and understand and make meaning of the world around us. And then the third weekend focuses more on sexual formation, sexual development. And the fourth weekend is a deeper engagement around calling and in some ways like how has what? You know others and and or just evil itself meant for evil God turned to good not in a spiritual bypassing kind of way, but that sense of like how are our ashes being turned to beauty and what is that kind of restorative process that has to do with a lot of reclaiming, it has to do with a lot of blessing and honor of like, like you said, grieving what has been so broken, but also like celebrating and honoring what’s so beautiful. And so, you know, I would love to hear from you, Becky and Dan, even you, what you’ve witnessed of Becky in the kind of front row seat that you’ve had as she’s leaned into story work as a part of her vocation, as a part of your vocation. Like, yeah, what did you learn about, you know, how was there redemption in who you are? I can say some of the things I’ve noticed, but I would love to hear from you. What unfolded?

Becky: Yeah, well, you bring the childhood story the first time and I know the facilitator named like what a ninja I was to bypass my mother. And I’m like, I loved that word because I’ve been a ninja of hiding or not being seen in a lot of ways that have actually hurt me. And then I think when we come the second weekend, family of origin, there was so, I mean, it’s amazing when you write a story, what you remember. And I wrote about being a child at the dinner table with my younger brother and my older sister. And, oh my goodness, what that revealed and still plays out. What couldn’t have, you know, I still can riff on that. You know, because it’s not like you ever talk about something like that at the grocery store with anyone. It’s just such the holy setting that everyone has their shoes off and there’s time, there’s capacity, there’s rooting for one another. And then the third one is sexual development and then you’re calling. So I think I’ve actually not remembered what question you asked me to talk about. 

Dan: I can step in and say, I’m certainly. One of the things that has been so, so sweet is that Becky had language before about being defensive and yet the ability to in the minute of defensiveness, to be able to come to that and not justify it, but also not excoriate and condemn it, but actually have a kindness to be able to say, why am I being triggered right now? It has just changed the nature of dealing with conflict between one another. Again, nothing perfect, nothing close, but enough that- 

Becky: Yeah, that’s pretty remarkable to think about what you just stated, because we needed, my brother and sister and I, even my parents, I guess, always needed a defense. You had to have it. And so the dance as newlywed says even being married as long as we’ve been, that will get triggered often. So now I have more kindness to that. I’ve always had awe that Dan is a teachable man. He’s not defensive, but that’s his story, right? That wasn’t, you it’s a different playing out. So it’s just, it’s very, well, you see the whole world, you see your whole life very differently and with much more tenderness and kindness. And I love that because I’ve been a pretty harsh person against myself. 

Dan: That’s one of the strangest things, because on the other hand, what I would say is I’ve never known greater kindness for myself or for others. But that framing of just this harsh at times cruelty toward herself and almost all my efforts to stand in the way, it’s like when a husband says, you look great. It’s not the same as when a good friend says, you look great. Well, there was a community, multiple communities interacting with Becky. And at first, I will say, I felt a little bit like I’ve said that before. 

Becky: That’s probably hard, yeah. 

Dan: But on the other hand, it’s like, I don’t really care who speaks the truth in a way that wins my wife’s heart. I want her heart to be one to see the glory of who she is and what she brings. So it’s for both of us, this hilarity that something that bears our name becomes the very context for some of the greatest change, but not directly through me, but through the community that has lived out a way of being that does bring change.

Becky: And I think too, when you’re with your group, you’re like in the trenches, you, you’re in the foxhole together. And that’s why I could hear their voices in a different way than Dan’s. And then I’ve even, we always thought that the quirkiness of my dad kind of allowed me to love the quirkiness of Dan Allender and I have, but I think even in the last few years, last two or three years, I’m like, this center should be called the Elva Thomas Gilbert Center because she was a formidable presence for being a mother, formidable. And that goes to her story, right? Which she never had care for her surgery. She was always in trauma, had 20, 30 surgeries. Everything was breaking down because she was the 13 year old that screamed and cried her way out of an orphanage in three weeks. I never knew that when she was alive.

Rachael: This is your mother that you’re talking about. Yeah.

Becky: Yeah, yeah. So I’m just saying there’s so much healing. You get the tools, the Narrative Focused Trauma Care, the different levels, but there’s still so much that has been awakened to understand story. so Jesus has just given me so much healing for both of my parents. It’s astounding.

Rachael: And I think you put words to that when we were talking before we got on of just like it’s multi-generational. Like there’s something this transcends like time and space in some way. And it feels like we’re, we are getting to do good work that gives back to our ancestors and certainly gives hopefully to our kids. And yeah, I mean, so a couple of questions for you in that you wrote a book, called Hidden in Plain Sight. It’s amazing and beautiful. You and Dan host marriage conferences and marriage intensives and marriage retreats and you’re getting speaking engagements and different things. Like, I’m not gonna credit like Narrative Focused Trauma Care or the Allender Center with that, but it does feel like the more your story was engaged and the more you felt freedom to celebrate who God has made you to be and developed more kindness, there’s just been such a deeper unfolding of kind of an unapologetic Becky Allender presence in the world of like, I’m not going to apologize for bringing these really good, beautiful gifts and bringing my fierceness because you are one of the fiercest women I know. And so I don’t know what you’ve noticed about yourself or what’s come.

Becky: No, I had actually credited with the narrative focused trauma care. That was the beginning. And at the same time, Tracy Johnson with Red Tent Living asked me to write a, it started out 1200 or 1600 words per month. And then that’s how the book came about. Dan’s very first editor had been seeing these blogs on Facebook. And we got together and hadn’t seen her in 20, 25 years. And she hugged me and said, guess what? I take people’s blogs, find a theme and turn it into a book. You know, so see Jesus knew that I would have never thought of writing a book. And then Dan’s new assistant had actually helped people get independently published for 25 years before she worked for Dan. So it was like, Jesus, you know, he just showed up over and over and over again in ways that still were too new for me to go after it myself, if that makes sense.

Rachael: Anything that’s surprised you, as you have also facilitated other people’s stories now for many years, and kind of you’ve led people into this work, anything that’s, yeah, like surprises you as you keep doing this work.

Becky: Well, I’m not sure if surprise is the word, but I think it is a win-win-win no matter which way you look at it. You’ve got your reading that you do that opens your heart up. The Body Keeps the Score. I think I underlined, you three quarters of that book. You start learning things about your own body, about yourself. You’ve got teaching then that happens. Then you have the focus of your body during the weekends that come on, how often do we get on the floor and breathe? You actually do the work that we all should be doing and we don’t do this in the United States. They do that in other places in the world. So it’s just, yeah, pretty remarkable. And I just fragmented just then. I forgot what I was answering. So I still have this, but I’m not ashamed. Like, I’m not gonna like have this over and say, I can’t believe what I was answering and then I didn’t remember the question. So that that’s the tenderness and kindness. I mean, that’s worth that’s worth ten million dollars to have that not be so, you know, condemning of yourself. 

Dan: We were just doing a conference in Atlanta and we’re in the middle of a talk. Becky just goes to the audience. I’m fragmenting. I forgot where I’m going. And I was like. I think I can help there. know, it’s just, again, that’s what I would say, the hard work. She had done so much work prior to this, but there was something in the engagement with a community. And I’m just sad to say that all the other worlds we had been in, churches, lovely, good churches, just didn’t give a context for your story, your trauma, in the context of communion, that is community engagement. And I think that was probably the most healing part. But to go back and to say, there’s a freedom that I am experiencing, not just one-on-one, but a freedom that I see in the context of her teaching and her engagements with her children and her friendships. And I’m like, my gosh. We could never have guessed that 16 years ago, this would be as life-changing, not just for her, but for us and for me. 

Becky: And I think it’s the kindness, right? You have language to understand the fragmentation. You have language to understand all sorts of things of your life. And it’s like it’s so fun to then be the facilitator with others. I loved it. Because then there’s a sense stories are all different, but there are threads that are all the same because part of it’s just being a human being on planet earth, right? In America at this time. it’s, I couldn’t be more surprised actually, because I had so much anxiety given my story to ever be able to teach or yeah, speak in public, not just like us. I married a man that did that, right? Because I didn’t do that.

Rachael: And you’re really good at it. And you have such a distinct way that you bring who you are and your presence and your brilliance and your wisdom to the world. And it’s like such a joy to experience it. And I wish I was in more of the places where it’s playing out now, but I have no doubt that like this past weekend in Atlanta, that people got to just experience just more of your beauty and your generosity and your feisty hilarity too. Because that’s like when you were saying like, your dad helped you enjoy like Dan’s kind of quirkiness. And I’m like, you’re a pretty quirky woman too in very different ways. And it’s so delightful. And I think, yeah. Yeah.

Becky: Thank you. Gosh. Yes. I just love to laugh. I’m always looking for a friend that I can laugh with because, there’s danger in laughter, right? You know, like even a communion as a third grader up in the high Methodist church, know, Maundy Thursday, to start giggling with a friend. Never forgotten about it. It’s so much fun and then containment, but like, I love to laugh and it’s close to tears too at times.

Rachael : Well, and I think that’s what you kind of put words this like, we are so shaped by our stories and so much of what we do, especially as kiddos, is we make meaning of who we are based on how our stories are shaping us, but without the freedom or permission or insights to know it’s not just our personality. Like there are reasons we have become who we are. And you know, we’re in an age where that’s more socially acceptable, right? Like you can learn your Enneagram and you can like learn these different things that again are all shaped in our primary relationships and in the stories that we bear and we live and we embody. And so I can think for myself before I came to The Seattle School, I would have just said, yeah, I’m just a really anxious, fearful person. That’s just kind of like, it’s a personality trait. It’s just my cross to bear. You know, or actually it’s really like other people’s cross to bear. You know, I’m sorry. I’m such an anxious, fearful person. It’s just who I am. And there was something so beautiful about being invited to get to look deeper of like, how did this come to be? And I think, you know, Dan, you were one of the first people to say to me, can we make a slight hermeneutical shift that it’s not that you’re just a fearful, anxious person. You have navigated and survived some pretty terrifying, like a world of terror. And that’s a very different shift than like, I guess I’m just more afraid than most people, know, like, I’m just kind of a weakling, weak little duckling. And I just, there is something really beautiful when we, through an engagement with our story, because it does bring a lot of grief to have to make that shift. And I understand in some ways how that helps us survive to just be like, yeah, it’s just me. I’m just kind of this way or just how I’ve been.

Becky: I’ve been so thankful for you and your story and because stories heal other people’s stories and your engagement with your own story, your own family, your own past spurred me on, continues to spur me on and I know it does to many, many, many people. It’s been a gift to me.

Rachael: Thank you.

Dan: Truly what I’ve seen for both of you, is that in engaging the heartache of your past, it has not just freed you for the present and future, but it’s reoriented you to a level of being able to grieve and honor the people who have done harm. I mean, I’ve watched Becky come to love her mom and dad, even though they’re not on this earth, much more deeply. And it has been freeing

for both of us the other day. We had an option between an Ensure and another kind of drink. And I picked the Ensure and I said, why do you think I picked that? And she had no clue. And I went, because it’s what your father drank. And it’s like 30 years ago, I would have never consumed an Ensure for good reasons, but also because her father drank it. 

Rachael: Right, it would have been like more triggering than like delight, yeah.

Dan: And so to be able to go, well, why deal with the past because you’re just going to be angrier at the people who harmed you. It’s like, no, this is really about love and how we come to love more and knowing that this whole strange process of NFTC. I have a woman who loves me more and we love one another more and to join her in loving her mom and dad, that’s really one of those where I just go, it’s good. 

Becky: I hate to think about if I had missed out on this because it is life changing. I mean, hands down, everyone that’s been in my groups, I think they would all say that because you don’t have a chance to have a guide to help you unearth the places of harm or being missed or whatever it is and it’s and then Jesus is there for heaven’s sake you know. We love Jesus that’s why the Allender Center you know Jesus is the center and and people can go through who don’t love Jesus I think absolutely of course because he’s that big, right?

Rachael: Well, and it’s, think like what you guys are putting words to, it’s meant to change us and it’s meant to grow our capacity to be love and to experience love, to receive love, to become more, you know, like Micah 6, 8, right? That’s a big part of what we talk about, like to become people who are more free to do justice and to love mercy and to walk in humility with God and so I, yeah, for me, it has certainly grown my compassion for the people in my world who also were some of the people who failed me and like deeply shaped who I am, not in like a, know, all the caveats of like safety and appropriate boundaries in the midst of harm. But I think a deeper imagination and actually capacity and like ego strength and resilience for repair, not only imagining repair could be possible for me, but that I could do the work of repairing where I have certainly harmed other people. And I’ve learned a lot about repair from the both of you. And I would love to hear, Becky, I know you have invitations in this season to be teaching about this or talking more about it. So what do you know?

Becky: Well, I, yes, I am going to be leading. I’m the only speaker at our women’s retreat for our church and it’s on repair. It’s on a repair with different times that I have wounded my two daughters. And, and I’ve, yeah, like, again, that’s crazy. I would, that’s… because that’s not what I do. I have Dan who does all the teaching, right, and sets the stage. But I don’t, I remember when my grandmother died. She was in the hospital and my dad said to me, your mom has needed to ask her mother for forgiveness for something. And they went and she had died before she could do that. And that’s a reality of life. You know, there was so much that I wish I could have said to my parents, but that’s okay. But to be alive and have repair that I can do with my children that they might’ve had to just carry that until, you know, long after I’m on this earth. my goodness. And so to be humble, to not be defensive, to see my, you know, because we have reasons why we do and act and what we do. then so anyways, and we’ve learned a lot about repair, attunement, containment, you know, through the Allender Center trainings. And so it’s just almost too good to be true.

Rachael: Anything that I’ve missed that you would want to share about before we bring things to a close.

Dan: Well, I’m gonna put you in the bind. So what have you seen in my beloved?

Rachael: I mean, I think back to that original story, like what I have seen from you, Becky, is a, yeah, like what I said, a growing like unwillingness to be sidelined. One, like you’re not going to let people sideline you. That’s going to be confronted. But also like a deeper belief and like imagination that there is a place for you and that you are beloved. And I think even what you’re putting words to around repair, like as someone who also can get really defensive. Like to hear you name, this was a way I was formed to survive my world. And of course it’s still there, but I’m leaning into processes of repair with my adult children. Like that is a kind of character arc development that I pray for so many people, it would be so moved if the ways in which the kindness they’ve been offered strengthen them to want to move towards me with, I think, very courageous form of kindness. I think repair work actually takes so much courage, right?

Becky: Well, and I think, think, you know, the generations don’t always have that repair work because we change. And so what we’re doing with our young children, it’s different when they’re doing that with their children, you know, and I think the enemy wants that. It wants us to stay, stay disconnected and hurt and not… because our ancestors are amazing. You know, the fact that they made it to childbearing years throughout this world and we’re, we’re those people that are living and alive. And I mean, I think I’m going to continue to learn more and more about repair, how important it is. And yeah, I’m thankful. But again, without that repair with my parents, it still worked with the love through the Allender Center.

Rachael: Yeah. Well, I just want to say thank you, Becky, for saying yes to this work, how deeply it’s impacted my life. I want to thank you for bringing your voice into the world with more boldness and more fire and more ferocious kindness. You are someone who gives me a lot of hope. And who brings a lot of encouragement just getting to even witness you. So thank you for entrusting us with more of your story today. And Dan, thank you as well for relinquishing and surrendering to places that you could have been like, no. And so just really grateful for both of you and always enjoy getting to know more of you.

Becky: Thank you, Rachael.