“Raising Wise Kids in a Sexually Broken World” with Laurie Krieg
Talking with kids about sex, pornography, and sexuality can stir up fear, shame, and a deep sense of inadequacy for many parents. In this episode, Dan and Rachael sit down with author and parent-educator Laurie Krieg to think through a steadier, wiser way forward—one rooted in the gospel, attunement, and ongoing relationship rather than one-time “big talks.”
Drawing from her new book “Raising Wise Kids in a Sexually Broken World,” Laurie shares her own journey as she offers parents help to move from reactivity to intentionality. She names why these conversations feel so overwhelming—often because of our own unresolved stories—and invites parents to do their own work so they can show up with courage and calm.
Rather than avoiding hard topics or responding with fear and control, Laurie offers concrete, age-appropriate ways to engage kids through many small conversations over time, helping parents become the trusted “anchor” their children return to when confusion, curiosity, or exposure inevitably arises.
This conversation is especially helpful for parents navigating early exposure to pornography, online content, and rapidly changing technology. Laurie shares practical language parents can use, how to reduce shame when kids encounter inappropriate material, and how to frame boundaries not around fear, but around God’s beautiful design for bodies, intimacy, and care.
Throughout, the emphasis is clear: it’s never too late to begin, repair matters more than perfection, and wisdom is something parents can grow into—step by step—as they walk alongside their children in a complex world.
About Our Guest:
Laurie Krieg is the Director of Parent Programs & Discipleship at The Center for Faith, Sexuality, and Gender, where she also served as a founding board member. Laurie has a master’s in evangelism and leadership from Wheaton Graduate School.
Laurie most often links arms with her husband, Matt Krieg, MA, LPC. is a licensed mental health therapist and a site director at Second Story Counseling in Grand Rapids, Michigan. His primary focus is on helping people wrestling with issues related to sexuality (trauma, addiction, infidelity, sexuality) in order to eliminate shame and grasp practical hope. Matt and Laurie wrote a book called An Impossible Marriage (IVP 2020) and the parenting book, Raising Wise Kids in a Sexually Broken World (IVP 2026). Laurie and Matt live in West Michigan with their three kids. They also co-host The Hole in My Heart Podcast, and live in Western Michigan with their three kids.
About the Allender Center Podcast:
Episode Transcript:
Dan: Obviously talking with your children about sex is not part of most people’s professional life, but it’s like my job, my calling has been to talk about sexuality with people for a long, long time, and talking to my children about sexuality, about put me under. And I don’t think that’s rare when I talk to parents either my age as to what they remember or younger folks. This is a place where we’re going to come back to this phrase where shame intrudes and creates a kind of cloud that keeps people from being able to do the very best on behalf of their children. And our guest today, it’s one of those people that I wish Laurie Kreig, Why didn’t you exist about 30 years ago?
Laurie: I existed…
Dan:I know you did
Laurie: I was 10.
Dan: Yeah. Well, thanks a lot. No, we are delighted to have you here. Let me just introduce you a little bit better than yelling at you. You are the director of parent programs and discipleship at the Center for Faith and Sexuality and Gender, and with your husband, Matt. Many years ago you wrote a book called An Impossible Marriage, but now the two of you have Raising Wise Kids in a Sexually Broken World and the book’s coming out. And we just want to highlight your lovely and good work. And I will also say I have the privilege with a number of other folks to be part of the series that you’ve developed that is adjunctive walking people through in some sense of the word step by step to address this issue of shame, awkwardness and how we introduce our children into the realities of their own and our cultures war, or at least engagement with sexuality. So thank you. Thank you for joining us.
Laurie: I’m so happy to be with you.
Dan: Well, let’s just jump in, how in the name of the good and holy God did you get into this?
Laurie: Oh goodness, Dan. That’s a whole story for all of us. We could be like, why are we here? What are we doing? I got into the human sexuality conversation largely due to my own story. I started blogging and I didn’t realize that, I naively didn’t realize that there was a big need for people to engage human sexuality, especially a space I was in was engaging things like same-sex attraction. This was about 12 years ago from a theologically faithful but courageously loving view. I just started talking about my own journey and then that developed into my own nonprofit, which then they ended up joining another nonprofit. And then in the last couple of years, I’ve been in this field for 12 years and our oldest daughter is almost 12 years old. So I’m a real life mom who has been taking everything I’ve been doing out there, filtering it through my mom brain and trying really to ask and answer the question, can we do this differently than maybe we were doing this 30, 20 years ago? Not that it was all bad, but I grew up seeing a lot of reactivity. And so with this book and that film video resource, we really were like, can we do anything proactive? Does it all have to be on the back end?
Dan: Yeah. Yeah. Well, we’ll step into some of the particularity, but one of the things that I loved about your book is you set a structure of talking about what are the foundations? But then so often in books that I have encountered and maybe I’ve written, there’s a sense of the foundation is enough, but what you’ve done is you’ve invited people to think not just in terms of a foundation for how we care for our body, how we talk about our body, how we talk about our sexuality, our gender, but also what does it actually look like in practice? So the, lay foundation, walk the foundation where you get very specific, and again, I’m sure with age appropriate and a kind of respect for your own children, you actually step into the particularity of dealing with your children. But can I just ask how many people name… I don’t want to have these conversations. Awkward, weird. It’s like, God, I don’t want to talk about this.
Laurie: I think every parent I talk to, they’re like, Ugh, how long can I punt this? Truly? How do we talk about sex and puberty? How do we talk about pornography? How do we, do we talk about the rainbow flag, we just eternally punt it until it’s in our faces and we have to say something and we usually end up screaming or we do some sort of trauma response at that point, fight, flight, freeze, fawn. And so that’s why with the the foundation, I’m like, let’s breathe deeply in the gospel. The gospel’s still good news, still, it applies here too. And then let’s just think a little bit, how could we proactively respond to this? And that helps parents start to get a little less catatonic. It helps me get a little less catatonic.
Dan: Well, Rachael, you’re in the middle of it and the reality of a young 3-year-old and your boys being
Rachael: 16 and 14.
Dan: Yes.
Laurie: Yeah, you’re in it.
Rachael: Yeah. Yeah. I think it’s making me think, and I know you have some connection to Jay and Heather Stringer, but I had them on, we were having a similar conversation, how do we do this? And I remember them talking about, I think for so many of us, we got one conversation or if even that, and usually it was trying to cover the whole thing and set the, here’s the hopes for you. Here’s God’s hopes for you. Here’s what your body is. Don’t do this. It was way too much. And they talked about having a lot of little conversations over time, and I really appreciate about your book, especially the chapters on honoring your mind, honoring your body, the developmental places. And I actually was like, oh, good. I’m doing things developmentally appropriately for the 3-year-old because I’m a stepmom to the older ones. And so I have a unique place as a parent. I have a really honoring place as a parent and also a unique place as a parent. And so yeah, I do think it’s terrifying. And so yeah, I think these conversations are so necessary, especially in the world we live in where you mentioned this in the statistics and the research is kids are getting exposed to pornography and all kinds of things so much earlier than so many of us did because they have access to the internet or they’re around people that have access to the internet. And I appreciated so much you shared this has been our experience. You shared about watching something on YouTube that was totally appropriate to watch with your child. But then the next thing that YouTube is populating up being like Barbie pornography. I mean, it’s just like, and so I think we have to be more courageous in these conversations and how we approach them, even if we might come to some of the theological assumptions differently. We still have to find courageous ways as Christians to have these conversations with our kiddos. I appreciate anyone who takes that on and says, here’s some templates. So yeah.
Laurie: I love it.
Dan: And before we step into more of the book, what do you find parents, again, your message and the way you engage. It’s so generative, so kind and invites people to a process where they may differ with you on scores of categories, but the invitation is you’ve got to engage, you’ve got to stay in. And how do you help parents manage, engage their own sense of shame from their own sexuality to be able to actually step into the reality of their children?
Laurie: We have to do our own work. And honestly, I could have written a third foundation for each of the subjects that we have, which is like, hey, process your own garbage. Every single one of these conversations, whether it’s gender or pornography or sexual abuse, I allude to it throughout, but we really could have done a soul care chapter for each one. And truly, I see that in my own parenting, whether it’s sexuality related or anything of parenting is we’ve parent out of our own stories. And if we don’t face the darkness and find the beauty and thank God for the beauty and his grace, that’s sufficient. Even though most of our sex talks that we had with our parents were terrible, we’re going to just either repeat what we received from our parents or we’re going to react to it. But our story is running both shows. If we don’t take our story and submit it to the king and say, Lord Jesus Christ, help me what is evil, what is good, and help me to teach out of the gospel, we’re either just going to repeat or react.
Dan: So well said. And the reality of, I think for most of us, the reality of shame, as we said at the very beginning is at play. I mean, I felt so much awkward. It is just not normal for me to feel awkward like I felt, and I had a conversation with my son and my daughter-in-law in pardon anticipation of our time, and I said, how are you doing with regard to the category of sexuality and conversation with your daughter who’s 13 years of age? And they both had this look like, oh no, are we going there? And I’m like, are you feeling awkward? We don’t even want to talk about that conversation with you, let alone with her. And so we’re right back to the reality that at least until we name the fact that these are high value, raw, threatening, shame potentially filled conversations from our own history and from our own experience of what gets brought up. So with just a few sentences on what you say and what you hope for parents as they read your book, as they engage the film series.
Laurie: Yeah, my hope is that parents really will be able to rest in, God cares more about our kids than we do. And that doesn’t mean that we just sit back and do nothing. That’s not what I’m saying. But truly, we are all in the sexuality biz here and the burden’s not even on us to defend God and his vision for sexuality, the burden’s on God. So that helps me really just sit in him. It’s like, this is yours. This is your conversation. These are your kids. All right, Lord. Now I hope that people, after they give the burden back to the Lord, then they study and they study the gospel. Truly. I’m not just saying that as a code word to be like, oh God, you said the Christian word. Now we can say other things. It’s truly everything about sexuality and marriage and singleness and gender and sex. It all flows from the gospel so we can rest in like, okay, this is all a good part of God’s design. And then the third piece is that we just pray and we do it. So burden on God, rest in the gospel and learn from the gospel, and then we just pray and you just rip the bandaid off. You just start having conversation. And again, it is what you said so beautifully, Rachael, is it’s little conversations. So there’s times where I walk away from one of those little conversations with my kids and I was like, I think that was good. Other times I’m like, I don’t know, that was terrible. And then you just pray and you add another layer in the next conversation.
Dan: Yeah, well, it takes away the burden of one event or two or three events.
Laurie: That’s right.
Dan: … where the cumulative work is finished. One of the conversations that I had with my son and daughter-in-law and it came up immediately was they have done really, really a brilliant job of limiting the amount of time on screens, even though the 13-year-old feels like she may be the only human being in the universe that does not have a smartphone.
Rachael: That’s good though.
Dan: All that to say their first words were, I think we fear more the power pornography than almost any other form. So if we can start there, talk about how you address that issue in the book and the film series.
Laurie: Yeah, so I mean we don’t have to dig too deep into the stats, but 54% of Christians are regularly watching porn, 62% of the 54. So it’s like abnormal to not be regularly watching porn if you follow Jesus, which is a sad sentence, that was a Pure Desire and Barna study that came out in 2024, and then 62% of those who are watching it are like, doesn’t affect me. Which okay, statistically that’s impossible. So makes you anxious, overwhelmed, et cetera. Okay, so I’m aware of these stats. I’m also aware that at least 15% of 10 year olds have seen pornography. I’m also aware that the first encounter with pornography is traumatic. So here I am as a mom being like, okay, I limit screens a lot. I’m like, I’m Jonathan Height all day. I’m anxious generation. Here we are. I’m here for the no screens as long as possible. So however, we live in a world where they have to write papers, we watch little things together. We’re not living an Amish life, which God bless you if you are. So I was aware I needed to talk to them about it. So I was like, okay, Jesus, I’m going to do it right now. Kids, it was dinner, Matt was seeing clients, late clients, and I was like, okay, help me, Lord. What I said was, Hey guys, my kids are at this nine, seven and five years old. So if you’re like, oh my word, five years old, Lord, you’re going to traumatize him. You don’t have to say things explicitly. We can talk about these things with just generality, but awareness, I want to be their anchoring bias. What does that mean? Anchoring bias? Anchor. The first place that you hear about something becomes the anchor to which you compare everything else. You hear about that topic. Who do I want to be the anchor? Do I want porn to even be the anchor for porn? No, I want mom to be the interpretive lens for porn. I want the gospel through mom to be the anchor to which they compare everything that they see. So I’m like, okay, let’s go. Hey guys, did you know that sometimes people take pictures of private parts and put them online? What? No way. That’s right. Some people do that. That’s so evil. Just kind of let ’em talk. I know. And I’m not going to be anxious. I’m not freaking out. I’m trying to model for them Seriousness with peaceful confidence. Yeah, guys I know. Now here’s what I try and do. Whenever I talk about issues, questions, I try and answer the question. Even if I’m bringing up the question, I start there. Even if I’m bringing up the topic, then I take the topic and I compare it to God’s design. Why is this not part of God’s design? I don’t want my kids to have this scared brain. I want them to know why this is not God’s design, but see the beauty. But guys, it’s not God’s design. Why? What are we supposed to do with private parts? We’re supposed to keep them clean and safe. That’s right. We protect them. Not because they’re shameful, but because they are special. They’re the only part of you that can produce a Imago Dei life. So we treat them with extra care, not because they’re shameful, but because they’re special. So boom, here’s the thing. People take pictures of private parts, they put it online. That’s scary. Next up, why is it not good? Oh, the beauty I can feel my own brain calming down is I’m like, because it’s special. It’s a Imago Dei life. We keep it there. Now how can we live this out? Then I want to take it practical. Now guys, if you are ever watching something online and you see something like that, I want you to shut the screen and come find me. These are two things I say, you still only say one. Lemme tell you both. I say, now one. If you ever see that and you come find me, tell me you will not get in trouble. That’s one thing I say. Second thing I’ve been saying, this is new. This is hot off the press. I say, and whose fault is it? Whose fault is it that those private parts are online? Because I’m not kidding, Dan you know this, Rachael you know this sexuality and shame and Satan and all hang out. It’s not supposed to be that way, but in this broken world, they’re so interconnected. I see shame even when we’re talking about this start to come over them. I said, whose fault is it? Is it your fault? And they look at me and I say, no. It is the person who put it online’s fault. If they come across a book and there’s a picture that’s inappropriate, is that your fault? No, it is the person who wrote the book’s fault. I’m not kidding. I have been adding that in for when my kids stumble across stuff and I see when I say that you’re not going to get in trouble. That’s one layer of shame removed. Second layer of shame removed is when I say, and whose fault is it? Because they auto feel like it’s their fault? Nope, it’s not your fault. It is the person who made its fault. So those are the three layers.
Dan: Those are brilliant. Again, part of the dilemma is our body, even as a very young being, is aware. Even if we don’t have language aware that primary sexual body parts, a clitoris, the head of a penis, bears more nerve endings, therefore more capacity for pleasure and arousal. So we already, even before we have language of our sexuality, have the experience of arousal in the context of our body. And so when there is a visual encounter, whether it’s age eight or whether it’s 18, there will be some degree of intrigue and arousal. So that sense of whose fault almost always has the connection to that person’s sense of arousal. How do you help children and will come to this category of age appropriate, because some of the material that you cover in the book, you literally go through how to think about age appropriate. I want to make sure we talk about that. But how do you help a child own that there are courses, arousal, intrigue in even that brief visual encounter.
Laurie: Yeah. So again, this is why it’s so important to not have these conversations in one big chunk.
Dan: So I had that conversation with them that was even maybe a little too long. They got about a two minute window, especially for the five-year-old. So we’re going to come back to that many times. I’m going to ask them, Hey guys, so what happens? They’re going to repeat it back to me, but the idea of arousal that may come up when we’re talking about, hey, it seems like I noticed you touching your private parts sometimes, that feels good, doesn’t it? So that may be where you talk about arousal and body parts, but specifically as it relates to pornography, I haven’t yet, and feel free to correct me, Dan, I don’t talk about arousal on the front end because it would sound something like if you see this, you might feel a lot of confusing feelings of curiosity or hard to describe the word arousal to a little kid. But the word even curiosity, it’s like, okay, that might actually make me a little bit more curious to even go find it. But if our kids see it, so again, correct me if maybe I should be talking about this in the porn convo, but on the backend, if they see a book, it doesn’t have to even be Barbie porn. Like I said, it’s like an ad comes up as we’re watching a lion’s game or something like that. So then I talk about that can make us feel a lot of mixed up feelings inside. When you saw that, what did you feel? And just let them talk and hear them and just say, yeah, it can feel really confusing and we can feel even excited. And God wants that feeling. That’s not supposed to be something that happens in this space, but that’s so normal to feel that. How do you feel about feeling that? Just kind of sit with them in that space and be more curious. Which I’ll add one more thing and I do want to hear it is I talk to a lot of parents who are quick to discipline seeing porn or even going back to it, kids who stumble across it and they go back to it several times. And I just want to emphasize a note of caution. Yes, if they’re lying to you, if they’re sneaking, if there’s stuff like that. But just that first exposure, those first exposures, it is trauma. A little kid brain should not see that, that there’s no way to prepare. And so I do want to say, please err on the side of caution and just it is a total flood of what’s going on. Alright, I’ll pause.
Dan: Well, and I think we can jump into this notion of how do you think about age appropriate? And I think a lot of my work ends up with parents or then adults who are then having to deal with their own children and that process. But where pornography becomes kind of a instantaneous see it, you’ve got a good parent like you engaging that different than when you’ve got a child who’s had repeated encounters where there is a longer they’re sitting next to… The classic meme is the kid sitting next to somebody on the bus who has, and the 8-year-old, 10-year-old has access to the internet through a smartphone and literally over a period of 15, 20 minutes is showing pornography that’s incredibly dark and wicked. All pornography is, but there is gradations and you name extremely well in your book that the very nature of pornography is a not so subtle, but nonetheless movement to deeper domains of degradation.
Laurie: Sadly, yes.
Dan: So when a child’s actually had repeated encounters, there’s going to be that interplay of intrigue curiosity and some degree of arousal with the combination of shame and with a sense of something’s wrong with me for having that. So it’s almost like you have to have a sense of how much volume and what kind of degradation have they encountered. But here’s the problem, you don’t want a child to have to name all of what they’ve seen while simultaneously you’ve got to step into some degree of what they’ve encountered. So I think it’d be helpful to hear how you name age appropriate.
Laurie: Yeah. So when I think about how do we discern what’s age appropriate, like what do we say to our kids, like what do we talk about? Is that what you’re asking me to talk about? How do we know what to talk to our kids about? So the first question I ask myself is what do the experts say? So look into what do the experts say? But some of these spaces that I engage, there’s not a ton of expert advice. And some of it is just like build higher walls and don’t talk about it. And I don’t know, except for the centers out there. So gross. So that’s step one. Step two is are you going to engage? I’m always asking myself, can I engage this without being explicit? Usually the answer is yes. Usually the answer is yes. There’s hardly a time they have to be. When I talked about porn, which is evil, there’s so much evil. I didn’t have to get into how are private parts shown online? They didn’t need to hear that. So if something’s going to be explicit, it’s like they don’t need to hear that, then don’t share it. But usually you can share it without being explicit. The next question I ask myself is, can I share this in a gospel context? So that three-step process that I asked you, this is always in my head, every time I’m going to bring up a question or my kids ask me a question, I’m like, okay, Laurie Kreig answer their question, why do I answer it in a simple age appropriate way, answer even if it’s when my three-year-old mom, why can’t we watch that? And I’m like, I can’t answer this. Hey honey, that’s inappropriate. Just answer it. And then ideally, can I compare it to the beauty of the gospel? Honey, we can’t watch that because they believe about things like marriage and gender, things we don’t believe in because God’s vision for marriage is… and then I talk about it. So can I say it in a way that puts it in the gospel vision so that honestly it makes our brains calm down. It literally rewires our brain when we start staring at the beauty instead of only staring at the sin. When we only stare at the distortions, it puts our kids into defend mode. It makes them look at the world scared. It doesn’t equip and empower them. So okay, those are the questions I’m asking myself. What do the experts say? Can I say this in a non explicit way? Can I put this in the gospel? And then my other question that I ask myself is, can I speak about whatever this is with grace and truth. However you talk about the sexual topics of the day is teaching your kids your willingness and your ability to talk with your kids about these things in the future. So if you’re forever punting, your kid is learning mom and dad…
Rachael: They can’t handle this.
Laurie: They can’t do it. Or if you’re forever vitriolic. Us versus them, you can’t actually speak about this with grace and truth. Your kids are going to learn, oh, if I ever struggle with this, my parents are going to be vitriolic. Or if you’re passive, my parents can’t handle this. So can I talk about this of this with grace and truth? And I know it’s scary and I know your heart is racing. That’s why we study. We pray our head off and then we just do it. And then one of the last questions I do to discern whether this is age appropriate or not is what is my last question that I asked myself?
Rachael: What do the experts say? Can I frame this in the gospel?
Laurie: Oh, is this going to plant unnecessary “what ifs” so dear ones, that’s why I’m like, I don’t know if when it comes to the pornography question, do I want to say it with this might cause arousal in you. And so here’s the what ifs. Okay, when we’re talking generally I love it and like, hey, we might come up, we might have a friend who experiences this, but when I start to take things and make it very pointed at my children, so you might struggle with this, you might experience this. That’s where I start going. That might be planting unnecessary “what ifs” in my kids. When we talk about it in the world and what to do if we encounter it. That’s one thing. But I am extra cautious when I start saying, this might be your story that starts to make our kids who are very vulnerable start to be like, is it me?
Dan: Yeah. And that depends so much on, shall we say, the 200 layers prior to that as to are they free to tell the truth? And when there’s a degree to which they’re awkward to tell the truth, can you be attuned sufficiently to them?
Laurie: That’s right.
Dan: To be aware. I sense right now you’re having a hard time putting words to things and you don’t have to if you do not wish to. So attunement without demand, attunement without interrogation to be able to know that when there’s something lingering, because that freedom to underscore it’s not your fault. There are others who are, shall we say, appropriate to bear that blame. The reality though is if there is this underlying presence of arousal, all the efforts in the universe to tell a child that it’s not their fault ain’t going to work because they’ve got that sediment of their own arousal…
Rachael: That nervous system experience that feels, I mean I think we just see this so much in our work with survivors of childhood sexual abuse is the places a lot of people don’t want to go is where they feel that shame of complicity. My body responded in a way that feels like I must have wanted it or I must have invited it and just not realized it or something. Yeah, I’m perverted, I’m disgusting. Something’s wrong with me. And I just love your sense of like, yeah, you can punish all day long. And I’m saying this as someone who still, my primal instinct as a parent, anytime my kids do something dangerous, whatever it is, is to orient, come from a position of fear and control. And it’s so much of that is because how I was parented, but it’s also like it’s my fight flight or freeze coming up. And I just think so I think especially when we’re talking about pornography, when we’re talking about encounters of abuse, it’s so hard. This is where our own stories are just so near the surface. And yes, that primal instinct, whether it’s fight, flight, freeze, whether you’re like, I just can’t deal with this or I don’t know what to do, or, okay, we’re going to move towards fear and control and punishment, so it never happens again. It’s like that is such a way to try to stay safe and that is an invitation as a parent. There’s just maybe some more freedom and work for you even if you’re having to call for help. I’ve got to navigate this moment and I’m all out of sorts and there is more freedom, there is more healing, there is more kindness and mercy for our bodies and maybe more places. We need a little bit of loosening where we still feel under a lot of accusation that our first encounters with pornography or the ways our bodies responded or our own struggles exempt us almost like, what right do I have to have this conversation? Or what I saw a lot when I was in youth ministry was almost a refusal. It was like, well, I have my kids in church, we’ve taught them the right things, so I’m just not going to see that even though the statistics say Christian kids have the same statistics as any kids on what they’re being exposed to, what they’re dealing with, the choices that they’re making, it was kind of like, nope, we’re just not going to talk about it. We’re just not going to have a plan. We’re not going to be safe people for our kids to come and talk to. And I just love that you’re reiterating. You need to be the person that your kids can come and say, I need help or this thing happened. So yeah, but you’re right. Those are seeds that are planted all along the way and it’s hard to, when I was having this conversation with Janet, I was like, it’s too late. We’ve missed so much. And it’s like, I appreciate you also say like, no, it’s never too, you might have more work to do to build trust or build a more open pathway, but it’s never too late.
Laurie: Never.
Rachael: It’s just never too late because of repair and the possibility of repair.
Laurie: So true.
Dan: And it’s such a helpful category because you’re in many ways, particularly with your younger, you’re allowing them the preparatory process you will encounter, you may encounter. And yet when we’re talking about repair for children who have already encountered, there’s going to be a different level of engagement. But in either case, this is so crucial to keep saying, even though we’ve said it a handful of times, this is ongoing. And so for you, and again, I know when people say you’re an expert in sexual abuse, it’s like anybody who spends a long time in a particular topic knows how little they actually know. So I don’t want to put the burden of you being an expert, but you have been thinking about this for so long. Where do you still find yourself, shall we say, being tripped up even though you know what you know?
Laurie: Oh, what a beautiful question, Dan. I mean, I was just thinking about that as you guys were talking. I was like, I have been laying these foundations. My daughter asked me about same-sex marriage when she was three. My kids have been, we’ve been talking about the gospel since they were in utero. We’ve been talking about pornography since they were little. And even still, I find myself terrified at times with Ai. I’m so scared, truly, you watch 10 reels. And I’m like, okay, cool. We’re going to move off the grid 10 reels about AI. You’re like, okay, so we’re done here, huh? Yeah, it’s all done. Okay, great. I want to just freeze and box them up like everyone else and not talk about it. So that’s where I go. I get so angry and livid. I so relate to about Rachael, just about pornography. I just want to scream and raise the place down. And then also you guys, I’m a real life person with my own sexual abuse history and blah, blah, blah, blah, and imperfect parents, etc. And so my kids can just regular old trigger me. And I’m like, okay, the gospel’s out the window and then I just respond. And then I remember by the grace of God, it’s like the most best parents are only 30% attuned and repair is amazing. And so I truly, Dan, I’ve watched your clip from the film project that we did with you where you’re like, oh my gosh, I almost died after talking to my kids about sex. And then John Mark Comer being like, I don’t know. I totally don’t even know what I’m doing. And I’m just like, thank you, Jesus. I just… have mercy. So I think where I get tripped up, I’m really, if I’m honest, I’m really scared of AI for my kids’ futures, and then I got to give that to the Lord. I’ve actually intentionally started praying about my kids’ relationship to tech. That’s new. That’s hot off the press. I think if we’re praying for our kids’ futures, like their careers, we should be praying about their relationship to tech. And then I can just get regular old grumpy bear mom.
Dan: Well, the invitation in the title is Raising Wise Kids. And it sort of implies you are not going to be able to invite your children to wisdom if you are not becoming wise. That’s circling back to the reality of what I found myself doing in the privilege of being able to read your work. I don’t remember what edition it was, but I know for any writer, it was probably the fourth or fifth process and finding myself wanting to go to Becky, my wife and just say, we need to pray. I’m finding things rising within me that I’ve traversed this land many times in therapy and discipleship and spiritual direction, but I’m again triggered and again, triggered sounds like a bad thing, but it’s more like aware and aware with a level of intensity that I need to engage even more the things that I would presume I’ve done some work in but still there is more. And I think that’s part of the great gift of this book is yes, you will be better prepared to deal with your children, but you’ll also be asked to become wise on behalf of your children and therefore be willing to engage the reality of what’s keeping you from having the freedom, joy, and power regarding your own sexuality that may still be there with regard to your life. And I think that’s the invitation. It’s maybe more subtle, but not that subtle that you’re inviting people to the process of engagement. Well, before we end, any last thoughts that we have not covered that you would love to make sure people know about your work?
Laurie: Well, just on what you just said, Dan, we really can do this. It’s not like there are sexual experts and then there’s everybody else. If you are a sexual being, you got to kind of study this. And if you are a disciple maker of the next generation, which every parent is, and many people, I mean every Christian is called to, you do have to find that wisdom, which I define wisdom as walking in the way of Jesus. So how would Jesus walk in these spaces? And you can learn. So sometimes it’s just like, okay, help me Lord, do your work. Go to therapy, get your work done, have community, and then just move forward and then do more therapy. And they’re like, go forward, but you can do this. This is not just for the experts. I didn’t start out an expert. None of these jokers sitting here ever started experts. We just started leaning in, and by the grace of God, God started helping us learn our own stories and we start caring for others. So he can, he will equip and empower you. We’ve got to take some steps forward, do some back to learn your story, heal, and then do some steps forward. He’s going to be with you every step of the way.
Dan: Well, thank you. And this year, the year 2026, this is what you’re going to be talking about as the book launches, as the film series gets more and more access in the conversation of people’s lives. If it’s well with you, I just want to pray for you briefly is to what this year holds for you. And so thank you, Jesus. I ask on behalf of Laurie and Matt, first and foremost, keep their marriage strong and deep, and that connection grow and all the assaults that will come inevitably, we ask again for a shield of protection, particularly for their children, keep the evil one from bringing even greater heartache into this family’s life. And for every person who’s going to engage the realities of what this brings on behalf of their children, we pray for courage and honor and openness and an engagement with shame because you’re the one who took it on our behalf. We pray that all in your name, Jesus. Amen.
Laurie: Amen. Thank you so much.
Dan: Thank you, Laurie.
Laurie: Such a joy. Thank you guys. What a blessing.