Tending to One Another’s Stories in Marriage with Dan & Becky Allender
To celebrate the forthcoming release of The Deep-Rooted Marriage, co-authored by Dan Allender and Steve Call, Dan and Becky Allender reflect on their own marriage story — its unique dynamics, the challenges they’ve faced, and the redemptive journey they’ve walked together.
They open up about how their family-of-origin stories shaped their relationship in ways they didn’t initially realize and the intentional work it took to build new, healthier ways of connecting, particularly over the past decade.
Whether you’re married, dating, or reflecting on other relationships in your life, we think Dan and Becky’s vulnerability and hard-earned insights will resonate with anyone who has felt stuck in a pattern or wondered how to move forward toward healing. Their story is a powerful reminder that meaningful growth takes time, courage, kindness, and the willingness to engage your stories — together.
Be sure to get your copy of The Deep-Rooted Marriage, available for pre-order at thedeeprootedmarriage.com or available on January 21, 2025, here on Amazon or at your favorite booksellers.
Episode Transcript:
Rachael: Well, good people with good bodies. I am back this week again with the privilege of welcoming Becky Allender back to the podcast, and as we mentioned at the end of our conversation last week, we’re going to go ahead and welcome Dan back to the conversation, back to the podcast. It was such a delight to have some one-on-one time with Becky, and it’s very good, Dan, to have you joining us again. So welcome both of you.
Dan: Well, thank you. It’s wonderful to be a guest on your show.
Rachael: I’m in the driver’s seat and it’s so fun. I can ask you whatever I want. The tables are turned. Just kidding, kind of. Dan, did you have an opportunity to listen to our conversation?
Dan: I actually thought it would be better for me to wait until we finished this instead of hearing fully. I just noticed when Becky returned from my office to the house, the glow. So she obviously had a delightful time with you, so I’m hoping that indicates that she’s still somewhat pleased with our marriage. She was pleased with you.
Becky: Yay to both. Hear, hear.
Rachael: Yes, yes. Well, as we’re in part two of a conversation on marriage and specifically around a book that’s coming out at the end of this month titled The Deep-Rooted Marriage that you, Dan and Steve Call, and Lisa and Becky have been a part of writing over the past long season is going to be available. And even as I’m watching the two of you right now, sharing your headphones, people can’t see, but two people sharing a microphone, but having one part of the kind of headphones in one ear, there’s a sweetness to yes, you’re tied together, you can’t move too far apart, but there’s still enough distance and differentiation. You each have your own headphones. But I told Becky in the last conversation that just deeply grateful for the ways in which you kind of bring the vulnerability of your marriage, the honesty of your marriage into the marriage work you do. You’ve been generous on this podcast. Dan, I know you’ve written other books on marriage. You guys have been working with Steve and Lisa and Reconnect to host conferences and workshops and retreat weekends and intensives. So this has been a work you’ve been more intentionally dedicated to in this past season, and I want to say thank you, but I actually genuinely delight in getting to experience the two of you as a couple, and I feel really privileged. I was saying to Becky in our last conversation on that time when I got to hear the long story of the origins of your romance, and it just feels like so many of those themes and who you are as people and kind of your matching fierceness, even though it might look really different, and your matching brilliance and your matching wildness was there at the beginning and just really amazing, beautiful, hilarious, and dramatic ways. And so the fact that you’re still here doing the work to grow in intimacy and to grow in honor, to grow in delight, not that you always do that perfectly, but that you’re still tending to that work is a great gift to bear witness to and to be encouraged by. As someone who’s in the first era of my marriage, the discovery doesn’t end, and I feel really grateful for that. So, yes.
Dan: Thank you. Yeah, that’s a sweet gift. I mean, as I’ve said publicly, privately, it really is the best, unbelievably best con job I’ve ever pulled off to get her to say yes when, if you’ve got some sense of some of the stories that led us to be together, I’m saying with absolute ferocity, she had enough data, extremely enough data to go, hell no, I’m not going to get involved with a person…
Rachael: She kind of did. She kind did say…
Dan: Yeah, she did.
Becky: There is that story, that could be talked about at another time. Thank you, Rachel. There was a point.
Dan: Yeah, well, but you came back for more, so…
Becky: We got it together. Worked that through.
Dan: I’m sorry. I have never pitied the suffering that, I mean, I felt grief for the suffering I brought, but I’ve never pitied you for.
Rachael: Well, that’s good. Yeah, that’s good. Because pity never looks good on anybody, right?
Becky: No, that’s right.
Rachael: Yeah. But it was very fun to get to have some space with Becky, and I hope you had a good time, Becky, in our conversation.
Becky: I had a wonderful time. Yes, it’s really fun. You’re good at this, Rachael. Bring out the best.
Rachael: Well, I think one of the things we talked about, well, we talked about many things, but just in some ways your guys’ different style of relating. And one of the things that Becky brought up, which I think is fine for me to share, is just how early on in your marriage or maybe even still, you guys would be at a dinner party and you would share details about your life that she didn’t have access to or didn’t know and trying to make sense of how did this come to be? And I do experience you, Dan, as a very verbose person, as I experience myself as a very robust, verbose person. So it takes one to know one. And I’m sure that that has been a dynamic for you guys in your marriage and your different styles of relating there. But curious, how did you come to be a more verbose man?
Dan: Oh God. Well, it is likely, I think what allowed us to have some of our earliest connections and the interplay of two worlds. And again, not to say it’s all related to our, only to our mothers, but I would say in terms of the relationship I had with both my mother and father, I was the glue that connected them. I was the oil that provided some degree of movement for them. So my capacity to story tell, to fill the room with meaning because my father refused to engage almost to a point of literally a sentence was rare. So I was responsible as an only child for the sanity in some ways, the glue for a very fragile marriage to exist. So I think that is a beginning point that our audience has heard again and again, if you don’t address the past, you don’t have the capacity to make sense to the present. And so I think for a lifetime, I’ve always been utilized words as the tool to create connection, drama, intrigue, and that has been both in terms of reading, I’m very captured by other people’s words. And that’s why so many ways I think I’m a very good therapist because I’m very captured by people’s stories and their words. And as well, I hope to some degree in my writing that I reflect that. But all to say…
Becky: It was when we just started dating, it was so bizarre. We’d stopped by, my parents at my home and they would be busy and talking and doing this and commotion, and then we’d go to Dan’s home that was 15 minute drive away, and we walk in the house and Dan’s father would come and sit down in his chair, and Dan’s mother would come and sit down in her chair, and then they would just stare at Dan. And then there we go. He’s off entertaining them for an hour or two. Everything stops at Dan’s house. It was like, who is this person I’m with and what in the world are these adults doing that they’ve got all this time in the world just to sit and be entertained and wanted just to hear every word? So it was of course, his veracity, his care, his intrigue, his attunement to me was awesome. But then once we were in our marriage, it was still awesome until it wasn’t because this was getting to use all my new dishes and try out recipes and welcome people and set the stage. And I’d been, and then as I’m making the dinner, the dessert, whatever, Dan’s had the opportunity to engage their hearts. He’s had the opportunity to delight over them and in them as well as to weep over them and in them. And so of course, what I thought was the two of us was really not the two of us because I wasn’t nearly having that impact on their hearts. And it worked for decades.
Dan: Yeah, it did. And again, tragically it did in that to look at Becky’s story and to say that a theme that has been heartbreakingly true is that she’s unseen. And in that sense, when you’re in the presence of a verbose man, also unheard. And that worked for us. When I think about what it was like to be in her home, it was clear that my parents paid attention to me. Whereas when Becky and we would arrive as a family, the scurrying about the busyness, but also just the profound neglect of her, particularly her mother and her life, so we were set up, it looked like perfection. Well, not really, but it looked like it worked well until as you put it well, until it didn’t. Well, when you began to own that, your words didn’t matter, that in one sense your presence didn’t matter in the same way. Oh my gosh. Not that it’s over, but there are just some incredible heartache for both of us to see that what worked for a period, and I don’t mean just our early marriage, but what worked to create survival in our own family of origins is actually killing something very important for both of us in our marriage.
Becky: And I think the Allender Center was actually a safe place for me to finally come out of the closet to speak. I mean, because the years of students that we had the opportunity to get to know and love for a year in their family, they used to be a master’s degree in 10 months, if you can believe that. So we had a very rich life with all of the students and our children were invited into amazing conversation with all of these students. But the Allender Center dinner, Dan and Rachael and the other people that were the founders had a whole nine months of a Saturday a month to get to know each other’s story where once again, I was in the kitchen preparing lunch, cleaning lunch, preparing dinner, and it was a very familiar role. And it was at the end of that first year that Dan says, at lunch, before we all fly back to Seattle, I love all of you and you are the ones I want to carry my coffin. You are my whatever. And I don’t know if you remember this, Rachael.
Rachael: I do. I remember. I remember I’m always paying attention and I’m feeling the dynamics. So I do remember very quickly.
Becky: So the heartache for me was that I wasn’t connected and I was angry. F you guys, you care for each other. I’m out of here. I’m really out of here. And oddly enough, as our heavenly Father would provide, the person who took Dan and myself to the airport was the person who funded that first year. And the whole way to the airport, he kept saying, Becky, it won’t work without you. He had no idea the conversation that had happened and the tears and the anger and the hurt. And as God is a faithful God, there was a time for me then to begin to understand me more and then therefore to be able to love others better and be a part of the delighting in the weeping over people. So it’s a beautiful story that it’s still going on. I’m so thankful.
Dan: The category of the shoemaker often provides its own family, doesn’t provide his family with his very gift. And I look back and go, I have been very used of God in many people’s lives and I’ve failed, oh, with such blindness, with regard to the one person that matters the most in the world to me, and that’s my wife. And so this process of inviting people through The Deep-Rooted Marriage to actually enter into the power and the heartache, and yet goodness of their own family of origin and how it’s shaped, how it’s molded, how it’s created, the unwitting ways we go about living, and then to say it can work and it could work for a lifetime, but something will be missing. And that is the work of redemption. So it’s one of the sentences Steve Call uses often and I’ve come to love, and that is that we are the face of God, particularly as a spouse. You’re the face of God to one another in a way that others can be and should be, but uniquely as a spouse, you reveal the face of God. And so as I look at the disruption of that drive, oh my gosh, I thought everything we had done with the Allender Center was over. And then for this dear man to have listened to the spirit and essentially confronted my wife without even knowing it was a confrontation, it was redemption.
Rachael: Well, and I think that’s one I just want to say thank you to you both because I think what you’re not just telling us but showing us is that this work is not for the faint of heart because it will take you into places of deep heartache, deep grief, deep repentance, and for you to let us hold that and hear that feels like such a gift. And as someone who did have a fret row seat to this very pivotal moment, maybe not fully understanding all that was there at that time and all the story it held and the decades really that it held, I think to see, Becky, you be invited into letting your voice come out fully and unapologetically and fight, and in some ways, taking up your own seat at the table. And like you and I were talking after we finished recording last week, and I think I’ll share this here, is to get to see something, Dan, you were a part of creating, become the playground for Becky to basically call you to task. It does make me believe in Jesus more. There is a very, this is a great paradox. You can’t escape it. Whatcha supposed to do be like, no, this methodology I’ve been developing, it’s a sham. I don’t know who’s telling you these things, but they’re wrong. You kind of have to listen to what’s being invited, because you’ve of the framework for someone taking a deeper step into their story and into their family of origin and how these kind of early attachments and early style of relating that we develop these coping mechanisms to survive how profoundly they shape us. And of course, we’re drawn to people that I think that is also for me, a great paradox that we will be drawn to people who bring about reenactment with the possibility of a different story of a redemptive story. And so to me, there is a lot of mystery too, to the ways in which God works, but it’s been really powerful and beautiful to see your marriage deepen and strengthen and I think become more intimate, more honest, more playful. I was sharing with Becky, Gabor Maté and his documentary, the Wisdom of Trauma, and I think I’ve told you this Dan before, but his wife is in it, and she’s very much sharing a very similar story to Becky. Here he was going on the road helping all these people, and then he’s coming home and I’m getting the tired, burnt out, kind of depressed, angry man and just over it. And that led, I think as they’ve gotten older, there’s been a lot of growth and development in their marriage and it’s come through story work and healing, and they talk about their childhood stories and their style of relating, but they have this line. What the paradox for us is that the older we get, the younger we’re becoming in their marriage. And I would say that’s something that I’ve seen from the two of you. And I’m curious with the time that we have, are there other ways that you would say other themes or ways in which even just these patterns, these styles of relating that you named play out in your marriage in ways that maybe are shifting or getting disrupted, even if they may never fully disappear or become, you’re not going to become completely different people?
Becky: Right. Well, what popped into my head is our daughter and her two sons and husband lived with us for is eight or 10 months, we can’t remember. But the morning we left was really very sad. I mean, I can’t tell you we had a tent in our dining room. I mean, we did not have much. It was completely other than what brings me peace. But we had children and a family, and I think God gave us great strength to have this situation. And then after they drove away in the van, Dan sits down at the seat on the couch that I’m supposed to know he’s working. He starts crying. He says, listen to this first paragraph I just wrote. And I’m like, oh my gosh, he’s going to write something really, really beautiful and get all this credit. And I’m like, hell no. I said, do you know what? Go up and I’m going to give you that shower grout to clean, because we hadn’t cleaned the shower and the whole time they lived and used that shower, I’m like, Uhuh, no writing none of this. Because I knew what the setup would be. I think it took us a week or me a week to reclaim the space. But you got pretty angry after about an hour of scrubbing the dead barrel.
Dan: All the tears and sweet, the goodness of their presence and the agony and the reminder of death and their departure all faded with grout.
Becky: No, no, you’re not going to steal the show again.
Rachael: It all faded with grout. If that’s not in the marriage book, it needs to give me in a marriage conference.
Dan: So funny you brought that up because it’s such a picture. I at least historically have been the one closer to tears. More sentimental, more excessive and grief and joy.
Becky: Because you sit down a lot, of course, your life.
Dan: That’s true too. So the play of that particular moment, it reminds me again of another moment where in the early parenting we’ve got a very young, maybe 2-year-old who’s throwing a masterful fit and hitting her head on the floor. And I’m an only child of an only child of an only child. The idea of being around small little beings was totally foreign to me. So I’m watching my beloved daughter do harm to herself, and I’m looking at, Becky, do something. You’re the mother, and she’s just as calm as can be. And at some point she looks at Annie and she goes, sweetheart, now you’re obviously very angry, but you can hit your head as much as you like, but don’t bleed on the floor.
Becky: Carpet. Carpet.
Dan: And I’m like, who is this woman? So I think, one of the elements I think that’s true of us is that we’ve been intrigued with each other while simultaneously failing to see the places where the intrigue would require us to actually change. I think there has been a sweet sense of curiosity over 48 years or near 48 years. But where we were triggered, I mean, when you feel triggered by the other, and trigger always implies some sense of threat. When we were threatened, it left us in a position where we both resorted to the structures that worked in our family of origin. I would just get angry and more verbose. I dunno if you want to put words to what you’ve done, but…
Becky: Well, I guess I would just hightail it out of there and just get away from you. That’s what I’m thinking.
Dan: Yeah.
Becky: Or I would mean I’m okay to yell and swear.
Dan: Yeah, you sure are.
Becky: I wasn’t really frightened of you.
Dan: No, I think that was part of the craziness, is that in the midst of extremely at times, enraged and volatile mother, and at times father, you weren’t afraid of my rage. You weren’t cowering, you were just shutting things down as to where you would find control would be the proverbial closet. You would go literally hide, but in a defiant and very angry way. So we’d have these explosions and then because there is such goodness and love, we’d kind of come back with a, oh, I’m sorry. Yeah, I’m sorry. I love you. I love you. And then so called forgiveness would just be a cover for us not to actually explore what is going on to draw this dynamic into the forefront. And so I think that, again, we’d both go back to say The Allender Center redemption for us both.
Becky: When I did go through the training, to me, it was the witness of the group that really ministered to me, and I’ve seen it over and over and over again. It’s that group that witness and be a part, and they would, they’d listen to your teaching, they’d come back to the group and they’re like, yeah, he never says your name Becky. He always says, my wife. And they were just so picking you apart and never does that. I needed that fortitude because it was so not wanted by the enemy. I mean, the enemy wanted to keep us stuck. And so it took a crowd of people rooting for me to help me, and I grew, and it’s like it was the very stuff that you were teaching. It’s like of all people, you should get this and it was beautiful, and you received so much of my anger or fury with understanding. So it really was a fabulous, I mean, I’m still part of the Allender Center. It’s still grateful. But yeah, it was pretty amazing.
Dan: Well, it is, and you said it Rachael a while back, but there is an irony here of I have developed, I think some very helpful material for you all. And I wouldn’t say that I have such a level of arrogance or self-righteousness to presume I have not needed it. But again, the level of blindness that’s true for all of us. And that sensibility of we can be wiser with others than we often are for ourselves and particularly for our marriage. So I think the power of having your voice, Becky, has been the closest presence to the spirit’s voice of anyone in my life. And yet for your voice to get clearer, sharper, louder, and kinder has required a community. And I think that’s always the way God intends always. That again, between you and your spouse, between you and your partner, growth is always meant to be more collective than what we have off and presumed and are very independent, isolated, and to large degree individualistic culture.
Rachael: Yeah, absolutely. And I’m just thinking about my own marriage, and Michael and I came into our marriage. I had been working for the Allender Center, and then we met through the Allender Center, and he was doing all this work. So we had actually a very common language and a commitment and understanding around thinking about The Deep-Rooted Marriage and some of the kind of movements getting clear about who we were and what our story was. And what’s been so true is that even with that baseline of a commitment to grow curiosity and to be learning about each other, there’s still so much we have to learn. And there are still so many triggers that yes need to be disrupted and explored and tended to. I mean, we laugh a lot and we have the most intense and hilarious conflict and impasses because we’re both very intense people in really different ways. And he is more of the person who in the midst of conflict will hide and kind of go inward. And I’m totally the person who’s like, oh, we’re going to deal with this and we’re going to deal with it now. But also in that can’t always be honest about how I really feel. So it’s just kind of funny. It’s kind like I’m going to fight you, but also I’m good. And if you tell me I’m something, I’m going to say no. Well, maybe eventually I can find it. So just that sense of the work is ongoing and there’s something about that. And we will always need community as we do this labor and this work, and we’ll need the insights of others who aren’t so close to us and so deeply impacted by how we feel.
Dan: Well, and I know you’re the interviewer here, but I can’t help it come back to a little bit of my role mostly. So how did it feel to have your marriage and your wedding described in the book?
Rachael: Well, first of all, I feel like you honored us so profoundly in some ways helped us see our wedding and put language to what we felt and knew to be true. But it was such a deep honor, and what a gift to be able to go back to those words to remember what was a very stunning, glorious, defiant feast and dance of warfare. It just really was. And it was four months before covid and people kept telling us we were getting married too quickly and we should wait. And if we had waited until the other date we were considering, which was March of 2020, we would not have gotten to have this kind of communal gathering, that gathering that we will forever be grateful for. So it feels deeply honoring, and it also feels like a, oh, what’s the right word? A call to stay in the good holy labor to not take for granted that this is just something that’s a given that doesn’t need tending to that doesn’t. Becky, you put language of intrigue and curiosity in our earlier conversation. And I think that’s what’s probably been the most in engaging your work in this book is that sense of the work to disrupt, and not just the disrupt, but to create goodness is gospel work. And we don’t just need community, but we actually need the Holy Spirit and what a privilege, a privilege, because I would say Michael and I actually do play really well together, and we have so much fun and we nerd out in really similar ways, and we’re human and we have triggers, and we have different styles of relating that most of the time I’m grateful for. There are some times I’m like, I just wish you could see the world the way I see it, and feel the world the way I feel it
Dan: Just for a moment. Give me five minutes step into an Enneagram eight.
Rachael: I told Becky that Michael is growing in his eight wing, and I’m getting a taste of the radical honesty, the provocative honesty that sometimes you should probably just keep to yourself, just kidding.
Dan: When we came to this chapter on blessing and cursing and just saying that how most people think about a blessing is just saying something positive, which it certainly includes, but that we are always literally moment by moment, day by day in a posture and orientation of either blessing or cursing, and that there’s no middle ground, there is no neutrality. And so as I began that chapter, I’m thinking as to how do I want to open that door to the fact that in some deep sense of the word, a vow, the vows we make are the orientation of blessing the other. And I just thought, there is no wedding that for me captured. Now I’ve had the privilege of officiating both my daughters and my son’s weddings, and those were the holiest of holies. But knowing your story, Michael’s story and heartache, and yet labor and brilliance and the interplay of Michael’s very brief, but poetically powerful vows. And then I would say somewhere in the range of about 10 minute vows.
Rachael: Yeah, they were probably 10 minutes. I thought they were two minutes in my writing.
Dan: But when your bridesmaid handed you a theological tomb, that was probably at least 400 pages long… now thank God you didn’t read all 400 pages. But it was like this is the most perfect picture of this couple, and the broad word style of relating, but more the beauty of existence being brought into a communion for that conversation. And I think that’s what we’re trying to capture. And The Deep-Rooted Marriage, you’re unique. Each of you so unique and so broken and so beautiful. If you would just be willing to do some of the work of unearthing testing the soil, beginning to ask what amendments, nutrients your soil needs. Yeah, there’s heartache. Yes, there’s so much potential glory can we play in the ground where God redeems? I think that’s been where again, I would go, how surprising to have a new wife of the last couple years and to say, do we have a good marriage before? Seemed like it, but it’s different and not merely better. I’m just amazed at the woman that I’m privileged to be with.
Rachael: Wow, you caught me. He caught me with just talking about blessing. And yeah, I think I just want to speak to your guys’ courage because to go deeper at this stage of life is risky in the sense of, I always feel even with five years with Michael, don’t take him from me, don’t take him. Give us a long life. And I just think, yeah, to let ourselves grow deeper in love and in companionship and in knowing in a way that no one else really knows you takes great courage.
Becky: And it’s very sweet and good.
Dan: Yeah, I wouldn’t deny the reality. It’s costly. I mean, I tend not to see things, and Becky tends to see things. And so the kitchen has been a war zone for us over the last four or five years because I’m home more and I’m in the kitchen more. And so this morning when you looked at how many…
Becky: Well, you finished your coffee, and so I know that you just turned on the faucet pretty hard because there was like 20 little coffee dots all over the windowsill and both sinks and the faucet. I’m like, I guess you had a lot of force with your water this morning. He’s like, whatcha talking about? So yeah, you sometimes are not careful.
Dan: Well, and as she’s saying, oh my gosh, there’s 10. Wait a minute, 58, no.
Becky: Then I can slide over to the wrong edge. And
Dan: Oh no, she’s starting to count. The number of coffee drops drops. And it’s so hard to be able, obviously to give the full flavor of what the moment was like, but there was nothing harsh, nothing judgmental. There was the interplay of some degree of frustration, but more intrigued, how many drops of coffee can you create and not even know that they are over the sink and over part of the wall and over the wood. And again, when we come back to one of the core categories for all human heart change, it’s the kindness of God that leads to repentance. But kindness is not niceness. It’s not a refusal to name, gah, you just literally, did you just throw the coffee up against the wall? I mean, that’s not what she’s saying, but she’s inviting me to reality. But with the invitation of both playful, kind, intrigue as I’m like, wow, that felt so different this morning. I’m not thrilled that I created the chaos. I’m sorry for you that you had to clean it up, but it’s different than it was in some of our other moments of tension in the kitchen. Would you not agree?
Becky: Yeah, no, it was fine. I can take care of this, but wow, this is a new one I haven’t seen in all these years.
Rachael: Well, anything else you would want our listeners to hear before we bring things to a close?
Dan: Well, marriage is, everybody knows it, but let’s just say it. Marriage is at times a taste of hell. And if there is not an awareness that you will feel betrayed, you will feel some degree of powerlessness and shame the reality that in some sense of the word marriage is a context to have reenactments, recapitulation of some of the trauma that shaped who we are. So if you think marriage is a way of escaping trauma, it isn’t just the trauma between the two of you. It’s the trauma that’s unearthed in the trauma that you experienced that now has the present and the past to both be engaged. And I think that’s where a lot of people choose to, either because they love one another just to erase the current trauma and hope for things to be better. But that’s always going to be a realm in which you’re actually stuck rather than seeing freedom and growth. So I think for me, what I would say is I would never have known, at least as a young man, the kind of suffering that I would bring to my wife or that she would bring to me, and I can see why people choose to go, I don’t want to do this. Yet, on the other hand, the other hand really important. I could not imagine the level of joy and the level of transformation that’s possible. So I think that’s why I would say it has been a taste of hell infinitely more. It has been a taste of what I believe heaven will be like. And if I can, Steve and I, and Lisa and Becky can give even a small open door to experience more of what it means to know hell, but even infinitely more what it means to know heaven than it is a good book. I’m proud of this book. I’m very grateful for the privilege to have been in a marriage that I think helped me produce some of the best writing I’ve done in a lifetime.
Becky: Wow. I’m very thankful for those words. And yeah, the hope that this book could be an opening, a new way, or even just deeper understanding what amendments can bring to lighten the journey and lighten the way together and actually truly be the face of God daily to one another. That is our hope. That’s my hope for the book.
Rachael: Well, again, I want to say thank you for your vulnerability, your honesty, and just letting us bear witness to who you are and your life and your marriage, and for generously out your embodied wisdom. So, thank you.