Celebrating 500 Episodes: Listener Questions

Welcome to a very special episode of the Allender Center Podcast! We can hardly believe it, but today marks a monumental milestone – our 500th episode! 

Join your hosts, Dan and Rachael, as they come together to celebrate this incredible journey with you, our listeners, and to answer some of your questions about the inner workings of the conversations that happen here on the Allender Center Podcast.

As a heartfelt thank you for your support, we’re doing something extra special: Click below to not only listen but to WATCH the live recording of this celebratory episode with Dan and Rachael. You’ll also gain access to a special bonus section, where Dan and Rachael dive deeper into your questions and share some personal behind-the-scenes stories. It’s a unique peek into the making of the Allender Center Podcast that you won’t want to miss.


All of us here at the Allender Center are grateful for your loyal listenership. It’s your continued support and engagement that have made this journey so remarkable. So, we hope you’ll join us as we celebrate 500 episodes of growth, healing, and connection. And here’s to 500 more! 

Episode Transcript:

Rachael: We’ve gotten together many, many times to record. But today, as kind of a special bonus for our listeners, we’re actually going to let them see our video of, we can always see each other, excuse me. We can always see each other’s faces in this podcast recording room that we’re in on Riverside FM, but we don’t release the video footage. And today we’re going to let people kind of in on a little behind the scenes as a special treat. You can actually go to the theallendercenter.org/500 to not just listen, but to watch, which is a little bit vulnerable because we got a lot going on here in the video space of our podcast recordings.

Dan: I think that’s really true. I mean, there are things that we bring to one another visually through our face that I think is a kind of almost editorial process when we actually speak. But lemme hold my ambivalence and say, on one hand, it’s hard to admit, we’ve been doing this as our beloved engineer, Andrew said, 9.6 years.

Rachael: Wow.

Dan: Honestly, I would’ve said, honestly, we’ve been doing 3, 4, 5 years.

Rachael: Maybe five at the most, right?

Dan: Yeah, five at the most. So the passage of time is not a realm that especially old men like me want to actually be able to admit because it puts us closer to the realm of facing our mortality. So that’s one side. The other is, what an incredible privilege. Oh my gosh, it’s such an honor and privilege to be able to be with our audience and to be able to share what we’ve had the opportunity to share. So yes, I can move myself to being able to say, this is really phenomenal. So congratulations to you, Rachael.

Rachael: Yeah, and you as well. I echo your sentiments. It is a privilege to anticipate all of you listening, and we do feel like we get to kind of be in your living rooms with you, and we’re holding that in mind that the privilege that you would actually take the time to listen to these conversations that we’re hosting and all the guests that we get to host and talk with. But Dan, I also want to say what an incredible privilege it is to get to be in these conversations with you as a regular rhythm. It’s something I look forward to, even when we hit our moments and places that our bumpy, and we’re going to be talking more about that actually in a bonus episode that you can get access to. Again, if you go to theallendercenter.org/500, that’s where it’s available. It’s free. You just sign up, you get access both to the video recording of this podcast and some bonus material. Today we asked for listener questions and feedback. And so we really want to take time to engage some of your questions. So on this conversation, we’re going to dive into some listener questions, things you want to know. And then in our bonus section, we’re going to do some more listener questions, but more around our process of podcasting and some of the ways we engage it. Because as you know, we are not necessarily a podcast for the faint of heart. Like we’re funny, we tell funny stories. We bring some, I always say brevity, but the word is levity. We bring some levity, not brevity. We bring levity.

Dan: I mean, I was asked to speak at an event and I asked, what’s the timeframe? And they said, we’d like you to speak in 10 minutes. I said, I have a hard time just sort of telling my name in that period of time. So we negotiated. I asked for 20, they gave me 15, which was again, gracious on their part. But yeah, brevity is not one…

Rachael: But some levity, we’re laughing now. We’re laughing now. So that to say, I’m

Dan: Not sure anybody else is.

Rachael: All that to say. We are aware that we’re stepping in the topics and engaging material, that it can be costly at times. So we’ll talk more about that. But for now, want to jump in to some of the questions that you all have for us, which again, even that feels like a privilege that people have questions for us and you took the time to share them. So let’s just jump in if you’re cool with it.

Dan: Totally. Okay.

Rachael: So the first question we have is, are you both in the same room or do you at least see each other’s faces? Does it take courage for you to do these podcasts every week? And are you ever nervous?

Dan: I like those. Obviously, as much as I did enjoy the beginning of our work, we often did our podcasts in a closet that they turned into a bit of studio. I mean, we’ve been in relationship for a long time, but it’s like we’re in a cramped closet, inches from one another’s face trying to do this. And it was a good space. But without seeing one another’s face would’ve a hard time doing this. We’ve done that, but it’s not the same. So being able to be in a relationship with one another over 15 years, at least, if not 20, you do get both rhythm, thought. But there are so many cues that we read, or even if we don’t directly read them, we experience them. And where I know I’ve been talking too long and I have a look that basically says,

Rachael: What? Never. I would never do that.

Dan: Save me. Save me, cut me off.

Rachael: Oh, I mean, I’m just laughing thinking back to the multiple iterations of the podcast and recording. So yes, we get to see each other’s faces here in a, what would this be called? It’s not like software.

Dan: I dunno. I think of myself often as pixelated.

Rachael: Yeah, yeah. It’s like Zoom. It’s like being on Zoom, but it’s called Riverside FM. And we see each other’s faces, and most of the time, sometimes with wifi, it freezes up and you got to keep going. You can hear each other’s voices and you’re like, are they okay? It’s really hard when you can’t see each other’s faces. We bring a lot of honor, we communicate a lot with nonverbal communication in the midst of our conversations. But what’s funny is thinking back to being in the same room. It’s like the very, very origin days of the podcast. We had these little recorders that you would almost use in a classroom to record a lecture. And that’s what we recorded the podcast on. And often you would do it in your office, which is hilarious in your office at home or in your office at the school. So the train would come by, you could hear the train on the train tracks, people, listeners would tune in and say, your recording quality is not good. And we’re like, yeah, we’re doing our best here. And at that time, my role with the podcast was actually every week I would get a script of the podcast intro that one of our marketing team members would create a summary of the podcast. And I would do a weekly live recording of the podcast intro, which I took very seriously and I did feel like was my entrance to my radio voice career, my voice acting career. I would sometimes record 15, 20 different versions of the intro to try to get it right. I mean, this is full disclosure. Full disclosure. And occasionally you would have me on as a podcast guest, and then I got to join you more frequently and that we actually got a studio with soundproofing to try to have better quality and then eventually joining you as the co-host. So I’m just laughing at when I think about that, it does feel to me like, oh yeah, we’ve totally done 500 episodes because I remember the weeks of so seriously trying to steward the intro to set you up well…

Dan: No, that’s so gracious. I mean, new data for me, I didn’t know that.

Rachael: It’s because I was reading if I was free forming, it’s a lot easier than reading and trying to get the language and get it in order. You at the time, if you mess up, you have to start over. So all that to say, thinking about does it take courage for us to do these podcasts every week, and are we ever nervous? How would you answer that question?

Dan: Well, some episodes seem for me personally, to require more courage than others. We’ve had some really significant conversations together pre, post, and during, when I think about the conversation we had on spiritual warfare and the conversations on spiritual abuse, those initial ones, do you remember we recorded that one in California when we were doing a conference?

Rachael: Just thinking about that, because we had to drive to Best Buy in the middle of it because the thing died.

Dan: Died.

Rachael: Or we didn’t have a battery pack for it or something. Oh,

Dan: That’s exactly right. And again, just to say that I have that recording somewhere and I have to be able to find it because driving with you in California was a thrill. As a motorcyclist, as somebody who’s taken a number of risks in a lifetime, I’ve not had what I would call danger aversion. And so I wasn’t terrified, but I was aware of being afraid, but more humored as you brilliantly, again, you’re a brilliant driver, but you negotiated the California drivers in a way in which it was sort of a combination of amphetamines, hallucinogens, and rock bottom whiskey, just that sense of it’s ragged. It’s ragged and brilliant to watch you interact verbally with drivers, never cruel or unkind, but just very direct about their failure of how they move. So again, honestly, the material at times I feel the weight of, are we handling it well? Are people hearing real core struggles of their lives? Hearing how we engage it in a way in which we’re not the kind of podcasts that attempts to resolve. But I also believe the gospel is a way of engaging all matters, but you can trivialize the gospel and when you do, you’ve taken truth and made it untrue. And i feel a weight about that. So in one sense, I don’t feel fear, particularly about a topic. I feel a certain amount of weight and fear with whether or not we’re honoring people well enough in the engagement with that. So a sense of nervousness or fear about that. But the privilege of working with you is that when you’re doing things alone, I think it requires a greater courage than when you’re operating together with someone because of the interplay. So I’m not aware of that much courage, but I think there are times in which at least driving with you in California required some.

Rachael: It’s funny that you bring that one up because I would totally join you. The nervousness I mostly feel is, yeah, are we holding people well and honoring people? Well, both those who are listening and also those who might be listening that we’re talking about, because we talk so much about personal stories. And so sometimes I think that’s an added layer of nervousness for me, how to honor, well, telling the truth is a part of honoring well, but how to tell the truth in love and in a way that, yeah, how do you have the wisdom to know? Yeah, we’ll talk more about this in the bonus episode, but to know how much to share in a public space. But also that particular episode sticks out to me because you had asked me if I would be interested in joining you to talk about spiritual abuse. And at the time I was spiritual abuse. First of all, what is that? How would I think about that or talk about that. And two, why me? I guess I do have a heart for pastors, and I do working with people who have been wounded by the church because I don’t think that has to be the end of the story. But I think that particular episode did require tremendous courage because it was a kind of aha moment of like, oh, this is material that is not only deeply core to how I’m called to engage and who I’m called to engage. It’s my story. And that’s what I would say is when we have certain topics that feel particularly lining up with the core part of our story, I think that requires some extra courage, but also some wisdom. And I do love that memory of driving with you to Best Buy so that we could do the podcast recording in the first place. And that was, driving in LA is not like a, oh, we just went down the street. It was like a 45 minute drive both ways on the highway,

Dan: But two miles away, but a 45 minute drive.

Rachael: Yeah. Our next question is more about our process. How do we map out what we talk about in each episode?

Dan: You want to go?

Rachael: I have some thoughts. Yes, you go, because I want to let you all in on a little secret, and this is going to make Dan really uncomfortable because what we talked about at the beginning, celebration can sometimes feel not enjoyable because of story, but this is a place that I think a lot of people don’t get to always witness how generous you are with your gifts and how incredibly gifted you are. So much of our podcast mapping starts with a team of people. We have a team that help us think about this one because we are representing an organization just as much as we’re representing the conversations we want to have, and we want to make sure our offerings and our programs are accessible to you, and we’re giving you content that gives you a taste of what more work you could come and do with us. So we have a team of people that help us think about this, that are fielding your questions that are dealing with people who want to be on our podcast or people who want Dan or others to come be on their podcast. So that’s kind of the larger process is we are embedded within a team and an organization and we want to be synced up. But ultimately, Dan does a lot of the heavy lifting of coming up with podcast ideas, and we do a lot of work around themes and ways that we want to both connect to the work of the Allender Center, but also for it to be interesting enough. We really do take seriously that this is space that’s a privilege to hold, but mapping out what we’re going to talk about is a lot of work that Dan is doing in creating these incredible outlines that he’ll invite me or our guests that are joining us to put any feedback into and be able to workshop with you. But I just want people to know that labor is not small. There’s a lot of work that goes on behind the scenes to make sure we’re doing our due diligence to handle this material well and to get to you what would be most beneficial. But Dan, this is part of your art and just your glory and your beauty. There have been times where you’ve sent me, I’ve said, Hey, remember, this is what we said we were going to talk about. We have it planned out for the year often, and we need to record some of these episodes. Where do you think we should go? And you will send me a stunning outline that’s very clear and organized and weaving together complex things in five minutes. And that is a gift. That’s a gift.

Dan: Thank you. Well, and part of this I think is the benefit of having been an only child with, I’ll just say it in the broad sense, complicated parents. And I learned, I think at a very, very young age to live internally. And if we were on a trip, I mean, that’s some of the worst moments of I’m trapped in this machine in this cage. And so having, having to entertain myself or to escape things that were complex. So I think about things like when we get an idea as to what we want to do, and a lot of times the two of us will talk for a long time, what are the 10 or 20 things over a few months we want to be thinking about then throwing things out. Then once I’ve got five or 10 things like that, then it becomes a playtime for me to be thinking about how do I want to craft an idea in a way that in 30 to 40 minute period of time might make sense? But I also say the dilemma with any first article is it has to be edited. And that’s where the work we do together in reshaping the outline becomes, then, I may write the first order, but your input and shaping. And sometimes I think, oh my gosh, what would really be fun is for people to see the work we do before we get on because there’s an outline, which meant to say it’s kind of like storyboarding, but there’s no dialogue that is actually set. And I think if I had to go with a kind of like you say these words, then I say these, I think we’d both lose our minds at about episode three. And so it’s much more improv, but improv based on lots of time in lots of other settings of shared reflection. And I think both of us would hope to perceive and actually hope it’s true that we’re theologically driven and share such common understanding, not an agreement, understanding of the importance of scripture, understanding of the presence and the place and person of Jesus Christ. And so as you begin to say, there’s so much commonality between us, yet for me at least, there are just so many times where I’m like, whoa, well, you just took that somewhere I was not anticipating. And I become then part of our community of listeners going, where are you going?

Rachael: Which I think is part of the magic of our faces because that is for sure something that people would see if we did release the video recordings and we didn’t edit the moments where I feel similarly like, wow, we’re going somewhere. I know Dan has a plan, but my face is like, where are we going and how are you wanting me to join you? And also, this will kind of get into the next question, which is, what is one of the toughest questions your co-host has asked you during a podcast? But it’s like for me, I don’t have specific, I have one I’ll share, but what’s funny to me that I think about with that question is the amount of times you throw something to me in the improv, like, Rachael, what do you think? And I know you have a place you’re going, but I can’t quite figure it out. And I wasn’t there. I wasn’t in that material. And now I got to come up in real time with an answer to a really good question. Because that’s the thing, you ask really good questions. They’re not like, oh, I can just throw something out here and I don’t have to actually really wrestle with this and think about it. So when I think about your tough questions, they’re not like, oh, that was mean, or it’s more like, I haven’t thought about that, and I have had times where I’ve literally looked back at you and just shook my head like, no, I’m not, or…

Dan: I’ve got nothing and it’s up to you. And it’s like, well, and a few times again, we tried to create as much elegance without being preposterous, nonetheless with a kind of movement. And those moments, I think a few times have gone, well, you’re shaking your head, what do you not? It’s a conversation. And if what people want to join is, my image so often is we’re either at a coffee shop or a bar depending on my mood, and we’re drinking. And the effect of what we’re drinking should show itself in the progression of the conversation. Meaning there are surprising directions that if you’ll allow yourself to be intrigued by, it’ll take you to places you didn’t imagine. And yet in coming there, you may go, oh, that was not helpful. Okay, well, it was a risk. And that’s what I want people to have a sense of is that good conversations are a risk. Sometimes they’ll take you to profoundly surprising places, and sometimes they take you to dead ends. So can you live with the reality that not every episode, not every conversation’s productive, but some of the most surprising ones will linger with you for at least in my case, for a lifetime. Like the episodes we had where you didn’t want to do it, I didn’t want to do it. I think it’s one of our most powerful of when things are not working well, how do you proceed? And if you remember in that little box that we were in in the closet,

Rachael: Yes, I do, I remember it very well.

Dan: There was just this sense of, look, let’s just talk. Maybe we’ll just scrap it or maybe we’ll keep it. But at that level, we were neither of us doing well. It’s like I just need to talk with you and let’s see what happens with that. That to me is to me the magic of not so much the two of us, but any two people or more that just engage from their heart with the reality of what is true, but with an ultimate sense, even if not in that moment that the resurrection’s true. So if I had to say, what is our conversation about, it’s like whatever we’re talking about, and we may not say it each and every episode, but the resurrection’s true. So what difference does it make? That’s what I hope people get a sense of as they hear us talk about any topic.

Rachael: Yeah, I mean then that if there’s something that comes to mind around the toughest question your co-host has asked you, we can come back to that. But in some ways we’re getting to the next question, which is, is there a particular podcast that surprised you about where the conversation ended up heading or about how the conversation touched one of your own stories or about how you felt after the recording ended? And when I saw that question, I thought about the podcast you just talked about that we had a plan, I think, to talk more about spiritual abuse or some topic. I was coming in not well, not well, kind of both interpersonally with some dynamics on our team and just a certain season of my life, and I was feeling real triggered, which we’ve talked about. And I’m a fighter, so I kind of came in hot. And I tend to be someone who’s more like, I’m not someone who’s… on the spectrum of disorder, I’m going to lean a little more borderline than narcissistic, so I’m not someone who shows up. I’ll show you and I’ll produce this thing and I’ll become famous. And you’ll see I’m the person who’s like, I’ll take my toys and go home and you’ll never hear from me again. I’ll withhold this from you. So I came in very much almost like I’m not ever recording on the Allender Center podcast again. Again, it wasn’t actually…

Dan: I quit. I quit. I’m done.

Rachael: Yeah. And it wasn’t actually that big in the grand scheme of things, but the way it was impacting me and lining up with my story and what you said was, can we stop and pray? Can we stop and pray because we do need to record something today. I don’t want you to go ahead with something you don’t. I’m not, well, now I’m dysregulated. Can we see what the spirit has to say? And we stopped and prayed and we both heard we need to talk about what do we do when we are not well, but we still have to be faithful to steward what’s in front of us. And it’s still to this day, one of my most favorite conversations we’ve had on the podcast, and we weren’t planning it. It was really vulnerable. I genuinely thought people were going to be like, what the heck are they talking about?

Dan: I mean, I’ve said, would never claim to be one of the most mature light bulbs in the pack. But that was very evident, I think, for both of us. So I think that surprise and that question really is actually quite troubling because the moment I begin to think about any episode, it’s almost my favorite, but can’t be the case. It can’t be the case. When we did the conversation not too long ago with Curtis Chang on anxiety, I really am very fond of Curtis. I’ve never met him personally, only seen him visually and read a lot of what he’s done. But that was just, I really enjoyed that. And I know that you have more so than me, suffered a lot of struggles with anxiety and watching the connection between the two of you, the shared experience, but as well the shared wisdom. I harken back to that and go, I really we’re going to have Curtis on soon. But yeah, those, and I would also say maybe one of the most surprising was having my two daughters. I’ll say it was fun, but it wasn’t. They pursued things with me on the episode that wasn’t foreign foreign, but the way they both handled themselves and engaged me, I literally ended going, I think I quit. And yet, on the other hand, what a honor. Oh my gosh, to do so with your adult children. So this may seem exaggerated, but I don’t think I’ve ever had an episode where I was like, that sucked. I wish we hadn’t done that. It’s more like each and every episode has that element of I’m really grateful things could be better. I wish I had said… those kinds of regret worry, but not much. Mostly it’s, I can’t believe we get to do this.

Rachael: Some of the most surprising episodes for me, well, I wouldn’t even say surprising, more just where the conversation ends up going or touches a story is when we have guests. And there have been a number that I’m thinking of, I hope I say his name right, Ian Cron, did I say that right?

Dan: Yeah. Ian, yeah.

Rachael: Yeah. Watching you two interact when we have guests on that, it feels like you are entering play with a kindred spirit and there’s alignment and what’s created couldn’t be created without that kind of play. When we have had our spouses on to talk about real talk, I’m always surprised with what Michael brings, not because I don’t know that he’s going to bring those things, but because he’s just a wild man. And so he brings, and also there is a fly, a huge winter fly, those big dumb flies that fly really slow that’s flying around me. I don’t know if people can see that, but I have another guest here on the podcast, and it’s the fly that’s driving me crazy that I’m trying to ignore. But yes, when things are shared or stories are brought up and I’m like, oh, we’re going to talk about this here. Okay, let’s do it, let’s go. But I think that’s part of the fun of, and this is something I am always learning from you, is how to be a good interview host and how to set a table that someone wants to be at and be part of a conversation that does feel more like a transformative moment. And I’ve experienced that with you, and it’s just the two of us. I’ve experienced that with multiple guests that we’ve had on many of our teammates. I think about Linda and Wendell and Sam and many others who have been on to join us. And in some ways are Becky, the number of times, Becky, I’ve gotten to hear Becky, you and you and Becky host podcasts. I love seeing you play together and the space that’s created. So if anything, I feel like our stories are often touched on in ways that I may not anticipate going into it or things we love to talk about being engaged. And yeah, I think when a recording ends, sometimes I do feel really vulnerable like, wow, that went to some places. And when is that airing and how could I take care of myself when that material’s out there and what will people do with that? Again, I’m not, well, I think that’s what we called that podcast episode that was kind of a shift. It really resonated with people. And I’m not surprised in retrospect, but I was surprised in the moment that it so deeply resonated with people. And it just made me think, I think one of the strengths of our podcast is we do our best to be honest about the human condition and what it means to be human size. And I’m grateful for that. And sometimes that is costly and we’ll talk more about that. But it’s a tremendous privilege and I’m just so grateful. I have loved all the different conversations and guests who have been in our space and what they bring, and just hearing from people that feels like a privilege that they would come and share their hearts and their thoughts and their scholarship and their sense of how they wrestle with calling, how they wrestle with their own pain.

Dan: I hope people understand. We do get requests, which is a lovely gift for a number of people to join us on the podcast. And we are very selective. I would have no one on that I did not have some deep respect, intrigue, somebody I want to learn from. And that process, the work that we are privileged to do requires a… I learned this from Becky years ago when she began taking yoga. And I mean, when I say years, like 35, 40 years ago. And that is always have the beginner’s mind. Always have that sense of even if you think a topic, relinquish it in order to learn what you don’t know and therefore to be able to share what you do. And I think that’s part of the gifting of having people on, and again, our teammates and then a number of different authors to be able to say, look, especially when we have an author on, we want you to get the book. It’s in my library and it’s been read, not skimmed, read, and we wouldn’t ask of you to consider this person on the podcast unless we know we have something to learn richly and deeply from that person. And so I love that. I mean, as much as I love just being with you, because I also learn. so much from you, I actually developed, I have a product that I’d like to sell. It’s called a Remarkable Whatever, but I actually created a document area of Rachael Thoughts and it just because they will likely be future podcasts and having an ability to sort of hold material if we get one or two sentences per podcast that again, not saying you should, but that you write down and you go, that’s worth thinking about. From my standpoint, it’s a richly successful podcast. If you get something where you go, I want to take that further, I wish they had taken that further. That’s part of the goal of why we do what we do. Can we just help you engage the matters of the heart and the mind and the reality of the gospel, what it means to live in a very broken world, if you can hold that together with some degree of anticipation of redemption, that from my standpoint, it’s worth all the time and effort that we put in.

Rachael: And I think before we go to our final question, I would say, yeah, Dan, I think some of the most powerful moments for me in this endeavor are when we encounter something of the taste of the gospel that we’re not expecting. I mean, we’re expecting, we’re hoping for, but it’s not like we’re intentioning it like, okay, and then here’s where we have this moment.

Dan: Here’s where we talk about Jesus

Rachael: And so there’s just been so many moments, I honestly can’t even count them. There have been that many where in a conversation with you or others or being a listener in the times where I’m not on the podcast, where I have encountered something of the gospel that I desperately needed a taste of water where just the way that someone is willing to share from their life is being the hands of feet of Jesus to me. And I’m so deeply grateful that that’s a part of these conversations that we’re trying to have. And so, yeah, that is something, again, as cheesy as it sounds, I know we would both say, and thanks be to God that somewhere in the midst of this, Jesus is showing up and ministering to me and ministering to you and hopefully ministering to others. And yes, it’s an intentionality we have and a space we make. And also, you can’t manipulate that kind of thing. You can’t produce it. It catches you by surprise

Dan: The outline does not hold “where Jesus shows up,” Make him show!

Rachael: This question, this final question, and then I actually have a few little questions for you before we kind of bring this part of the episode to a close. But someone asks, what happens after you turn off the recording? Do you just sign off right away for your next commitment, or do you debrief the podcast experience or something else? And I think it’s a little bit of, it’s like A, B, C, D, all of the above, right?

Dan: Yeah. I mean, there’re seasons. When we get close to summer, we do a massive amount of podcasts because I’m going to go fish and we’ve not figured out how to be able to make the internet work in certain worlds that I’m in. So when we do those four or five podcasts in a row, marathons. Those are the times particularly, where recovery requires not moving on. But in that, I tend to be a person who has to go through what has happened to be able to move forward into what’s next. Not always, I mean, sometimes immediately after there’s an appointment, but if I don’t go back through it, kind of not so much a critique what we did or didn’t do, but more what more do I want for us to engage? So that’s where, again, it looks like I’m selling a product, but I used to have a million notebooks. Now I have this thing called Remarkable where I just sit down and for… because I have the outline on the remarkable. And then to be able to take two or three sentences, we could have covered X or Y a little bit more, then it becomes something I can come back to engage. So there is that, how do we make use of this? Because we’re broadly dealing with trauma almost all the time, and yet that’s a pretty narrow field where people could go we’re tired of your focus. I get it. I mean, sometimes I am as well, but there are always different angles. So I think that notion of any topic that is important is a form of a diamond. It has facets. And the more complex and beautiful the facets, the more you can come back from a different perspective. So that’s part of that. But there are just times I want to linger. And so we sometimes just chat for a while. And I think some of those moments are just, again, I think the audience knows it, feels it. I just love working with you. I love you, I love working with you. And so some of our post, comments and reflections, are just a way of sealing the goodness to keep evil from being able to work Its really sinister and subtle forms of attacking. And the more that anyone can work with people they love, respect, and honor to do things that have to do with the kingdom of God is more dangerous but also more pleasurable. So I think those moments for me are even when it’s just three or four minutes together, just sweet.

Rachael: Yeah, I would agree. And something that I think is kind of a fun behind the scenes thing to share is, Andrew, who is also here with us, but not on the screen, who is helping us make sure our sound is working and things are smooth and is also doing so much of the uploading work. And then we have a team that does a lot of getting everything ready and producing the podcast, but Andrew will pop back on the screen when we’re done and we often get to say, was that okay? I mean, the amount of times we look at Andrew and say, was that, okay,

Dan: What did we just cover? In fact, in fact, we didn’t plan this. So I’m hoping Andrew’s there, but Andrew pop in Andrew, he’s…

Rachael: Like, I’m not trying to pop in here. He may be working on other things because he does have a full life.

Dan: He could be. So this will be one of those places where he’ll have to edit out or just leave it. But I would love to…

Rachael: He also could be like, I’m not coming on with these crazy people.

Dan: I’m not doing that. Yeah, that’s also a very sweet part. Working with Andrew has been a joy. I think, again, even though I thought the podcast had only lasted five years, I think it’s been at least two years that Andrew has been watching and engaging.

Rachael: And I also think what’s kind of funny, I think when you listen to a podcast and you imagine podcast hosts, at least some people, it is their full-time job and the thing they do, for us, it is, but a slice of the work that we do. So I will just say for myself, often these podcast recordings are fit in between other meetings where I literally sign off here and then I hop into another meeting and we’re away with planning for curriculum for one of our trainings. Or I just walk downstairs to see my daughter and see my boys and see Michael and say hello before hopping into another meeting. I work mostly from home. And I think that’s what’s so funny to me about podcast recording is as the audience and the listeners are always in my purview, and there’s these times where it feels like you and I are just sitting and having a conversation with each other, and I have to remind myself, people listen to this. People are actually listening to what you just said. And it’s just a strange thing to hop on with a friend or with people you’re meeting and hosting and have a conversation and then be anticipating how people will receive it, but they’re not going to necessarily listen to it when you just recorded it. There’s a lot of process. So those are the funny moments for me too, when it’s like we just had this really intense conversation that was really powerful and went places I didn’t expect, and then I just kind of get off of Riverside and put my mic away and I’m on with my day to the next thing. And it’s a both end, all those things,

Dan: Yeah, it’s a both/and. I know we’re to come to something of an end, nonetheless. That’s so true in that we have at times so much privilege and meaning that a lot of people who don’t get to step into the matters of the heart and the matters of relationship in the gospel on a regular hourly basis. Sometimes the intensity of what we do, we’ve done well or we’ve done for a long time, and it doesn’t seem possible to do that and then step into something else. And yet, I think those are the interplays of sometimes I’ve got to go for a walk. I’ve got to sit and write for a few moments, but I also have the ability to leave this and go immediately into something else. And I think back to the issue of calling. We are given what we need in order to accomplish what we’re called to become. And if that’s true, and I believe it’s then provision the provision of the gifting, of the capacity of the endurance, as long as you can tell the truth. And I think I go back to this is a framework of, I may not tell all the truth, but I have to tell enough truth for the reality of these are complex waters. No one does it well, and faithfulness essentially is always stumbling forward even when you fall, being willing to go. Let’s keep going.

Rachael: Amen to that.

Dan: So I look forward to another 500 with you, Rachael.

Rachael: Yeah, likewise. Wow. Normally that’s where I would just be like, let’s turn off the recording and here we go. But I want to give a little bit of an outro just because this is a special 500th episode. And Dan, as we move towards the close, my final question for you is just any shout outs you would give to our listeners, to our team as we bring this episode to a close?

Dan: Well, I love what you’ve already covered, and I’ll simply say to have a team that’s larger than us, to have us, to have you, is essential to have the larger team that provides some degree of feedback. But I think the major shout out is to those who would take 47 minutes to listen to us, I just want to go Thank you. Yeah, thank you. The privilege of being in this in some form, meaning even though it’s primarily our voices and this current episode pixelated, to be in it together and to occasionally, conferences or others to have somebody be able to put a phrase to when you and Rachael did or when Rachael said, and to be able to go, oh my gosh, what? Both a surprise, but also a privilege to be part of the framing of the gospel in the reality of a fallen world in your life that that’s worth getting up.

Rachael: Yeah. Yes. And I want to give a special, maybe strange, but special to me, shout out to some of the Oklahoma listeners because you keep encountering my family, you know them. And I forgot to tell my family I was co-hosting a podcast. So they’ve been like, someone said you were on a podcast, why didn’t you tell us? And then I realized I hadn’t necessarily communicated that I am on this regularly, but mostly it is the play of the gospel to me that a place that is so dear to me and so formative to me that there are people I know that I didn’t know were listening and people that I don’t know that are listening. So a special shout out to our Oklahoma listeners, just send you all the blessing. Okay. So with that, just we’re going to bring this to a close, but just a reminder, as a special bonus, we’ve recorded this. So if you’re listening and you’re going, I do want to see their faces and I want to see the environment they’re in, and I want to see what this looks like behind the scenes. You can check out the recording. We really wanted to just invite you into our space a little more and make this feel like you’re having a conversation with friends, because really that is what we feel like every week when we’re doing this. And again, we’re going to actually continue this conversation with some extra bonus questions from our listeners. So if you’re intrigued, you can visit theallendercenter.org/500. That’s 500 to request access to the video from today. And the bonus questions we’re about to engage. You ready to lean into some bonus material?

Dan: Yeah, I am. But one last thing, and that is in the bonus material, we’re going to show our offices and talk a little bit about it.

Rachael: Okay. Sounds like a plan. I will see you there

Dan: Soon.

Rachael: Yeah.